Good HoA Lawyers- Any recommendations? (rentals, refinance, houses)

[GCharlotte]

Originally Posted by Ordinary_Mom

Dipdog3,

Thanks for response. I do have written proof. I have emails with which I sent pictures and BS responses from HoA president like "Oh, its tree save area, we cant do anything". I then contacted the town and they said "You need towns persmission to take down a tree, but that does not mean you should not maintain trees".

I tried bring this to HoA's attention but they are stubborn ans tick to one liner-Get it from your HOI. If not filing lawsuit, what kind of attorney do I need? What steps should I take?

Many Thanks,
Karen

There is a tree ordinance in Charlotte that does regulate this. However, it's up to the owner of the property (them not you) to deal with the city and get the permits if needed etc., etc.

[GCharlotte]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

With respect to the "HOA", the term "association" is a marketing gimmick used to confuse you. These are not "groups of people". The HOA corporation is a corporation completely separate from the homeowners. You aren't suing yourself any more than you are paying yourself when you pay assessments to the HOA corporation.

What marketing? I've never seen an HOA market themselves.

I can't agree with the rest of what you say. Perhaps it's just semantics. The corporation has members. Those members include those that are subject to a lien by the HOA. These members can vote on what the HOA does. The members HAVE to vote on certain things in order for the HOA to make changes.

The HOA itself and the board of directors cannot alter the CCRs without member consent.

A group of members is an association. So I don't see how it's separate. It ceases to function without members.

And yes when I pay assessments that money is spent on my behalf just like if there is a lawsuit I pay for that. My example of raising assessments is valid. If something goes terribly wrong we that are members are on the hook.

If you have a link to a legal statement about a NORTH CAROLINA HOA that would reenforce what you are saying you are free to share. Otherwise we're just offering opinions.

Except the part where I said the stuff about being members of an association. That's in my bylaws.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

What marketing? I've never seen an HOA market themselves.

Not "your" HOA, the HOA and housing industry as a whole. The term "association" is a euphemism and it is used to confuse.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

I can't agree with the rest of what you say. Perhaps it's just semantics. The corporation has members. Those members include those that are subject to a lien by the HOA. These members can vote on what the HOA does. The members HAVE to vote on certain things in order for the HOA to make changes.

So you think you "paying yourself" when you pay assessments to the HOA corporation?
The "HOA" is not making changes, the involuntary members are voting for changes. You need to distinguish between the HOA corporation and its involuntary members. They are two entirely different things.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

The HOA itself and the board of directors cannot alter the CCRs without member consent.

This statement does not seem to have any bearing on anything in this thread. However, anyone who has dealt with an HOA corporation or its vendors knows full well that boards routinely attempt to interpret restrictive covenants as they see fit, to create authority that they do not have, and to adopt "resolutions" to expand their control over you and your property.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

A group of members is an association. So I don't see how it's separate. It ceases to function without members.

You have just demonstrated how easily people are confused by using the term "association". You must distinguish between the HOA corporation and the "group" of homeowners. THe HOA industry of HOA attorneys and HOA management companies lobby for "stronger 'associations' ". You are misled by their use of terminology. They aren't seeking to make the "homeowners" better off. They are seeking to make the HOA corporation all-powerful over the homeowners. When you stop using the term "association" and start using the term "corporation" you will probably start to see the difference. "Association" sounds all nice and friendly like a "group of people". However, the "Association" is actually more properly identified as the "Corporation". Look at the HOA of which you are an involuntary member. It is a corporation, not an association.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

And yes when I pay assessments that money is spent on my behalf just like if there is a lawsuit I pay for that. My example of raising assessments is valid. If something goes terribly wrong we that are members are on the hook.

The money is not "spent on your behalf" at all. Indeed you may find yourself the target of an HOA board or its vendors. At that time you will likely realize that assessments are not being collected for your benefit at all.

As to liabilities, I agree that you are personally liable and your house is the security for whatever debts the HOA corporation board racks up.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

If you have a link to a legal statement about a NORTH CAROLINA HOA that would reenforce what you are saying you are free to share. Otherwise we're just offering opinions.

Examine the name of "your" HOA to see whether "corporation" or "inc." or "corp." or something similar is part of the name. In many states there is not a requirements to include "corp", "inc." or other designators of a corporation within the name for a non-profit corporation. Nonetheless your HOA corporation will probably still have such terms in its full name.

Why not look up "your" HOA corporation on the NC Secretary of State website and let the SOS tell you that you are dealing with a corporation.
North Carolina Secretary of State

Recognize that the term "association" is intended to give you the misperception that you have. In most states, the non-profit corporation act is the basis for the organizational form of the HOA corporation. Your state has a "planned community act" applicable to some HOA-burdened properties but the non-profit corporation act is still relevant BECAUSE the HOA corporations are in fact corporations.

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

Except the part where I said the stuff about being members of an association. That's in my bylaws.

Membership is not a privilege - that's why membership in the corporation is involuntary. However, whether or not you are a member has zero to do with the fact that the HOA corporation is a corporation and it is an entity wholly separate and apart from the members. When the industry refers to "empowering associations" they are NOT talking about creating rights for you the homeowner. They are talking about giving the HOA corporation and its board more power over the homeowners and the property of the homeowners. The term "association" is used deliberately to confuse you - even in North Carolina.

[GCharlotte]

Originally Posted by IC_deLight

Not "your" HOA, the HOA and housing industry as a whole. The term "association" is a euphemism and it is used to confuse.

I'm sorry you spent so much time on your reply because I am not going to read it. At least twice you told me what to do regarding how I think and at least once you implied I am confused for not thinking your way.

I think our points have been made. I recommend the readers go with me on this subject.

[frewroad]

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

I'm sorry you spent so much time on your reply because I am not going to read it.

Good Decision.

It would be a waste of your time anyway because the party isn't speaking of HOAs as codified in NC Law. A case decided on Virgina statutes has no bearing here. Likewise the other comments made don't reflect the NC Planned Community Act.

Until they cite the NC statute or Federal statute or NC court case that sets precedent, it's not relevant.

[spankys bbq]

OP, the process should be very simple to get their attention.

1- Send a bill to them for the damage. Send certified, return receipt requested.

2- If no favorable response, go to the courthouse and file a complaint for money owed. This costs $126 in NC.

3- Receive check in mail from HOA.

If you do go to court, you should have little problem winning the case. If you have the documentation you say you do, it should be an in-and-out case, done in 10 minutes unless the HOA attorney wants to get up and ramble on and on about something or other. Most small claims magistrates in Mecklenburg county aren't going to go for that.

You will need a bill for the repairs, pictures of the damage, pictures of the repairs, receipts, the emails to the HOA and any other supporting info. If you win, you will also be entitled to recover the costs of filing the action. You do not need an attorney for small claims court. Be to the point and do not let emotion, especially anger, present itself in court. That will do nothing to help your case.


I am not an attorney and am not offering legal advice, but I have been in a similar situation as far as complaints for money owed and it was a fairly pain-free process because I had all of the supporting documentation.

Best of luck with everything.

[IC_deLight]

Originally Posted by GCharlotte

I'm sorry you spent so much time on your reply because I am not going to read it. At least twice you told me what to do regarding how I think and at least once you implied I am confused for not thinking your way.

I think our points have been made. I recommend the readers go with me on this subject.

Intentional ignorance is not going to help you with anything. You weren't "told" to do anything. You were invited to examine the formal name of the HOA corporation to see if it was expressly identified as a corporation. You were also provided a link to the North Carolina Secretary of State entity search web page to enable you to easily verify for yourself what the organizational structure is for the entity that you deny is a corporation. Choosing to ignore reality does not change the organizational structure of the entity that burdens your property. Denial isn't just a river in Egypt....

As to the poster that needs references to the North Carolina Planned Community Act - the Act is not applicable to all subdivisions, however, here is the part you would be interested in (emphasis added):

§ 47F‑3‑101. Organization of owners' association.
A lot owners' association shall be incorporated no later than the date the first lot in the planned community is conveyed. The membership of the association at all times shall consist exclusively of all the lot owners or, following termination of the planned community, of all persons entitled to distributions of proceeds under G.S. 47F‑2‑118. Every association created after the effective date of this Chapter shall be organized as a nonprofit corporation. (1998‑199, s. 1.)
Chapter 47F

With respect to North Carolina, to the extent that a subdivision falls within the purview of the North Carolina Planned Community Act you are talking about a corporation not a "group of homeowners". The term "association" is used to confuse.

No one cited Virginia cases for the proposition that an HOA is a corporation separate and apart from its members. Nor would anyone need to point to specific caselaw for such fundamental things. GCharlotte originally cited the Virginia case as a "real sad case not in NC where the HOA went after a minor violation and ended up costing the HOA $400K". Except that there was no violation at all. The posted signs that the board members did not like were within the size constraints and not in "violation" of anything except board member's personal preferences. The board tried to adopt resolutions to empower board members to "fine" other homeowners. In this case, the board sought to create fining powers to fine the homeowners over their election signs. The board spent $400,000 in pursuit of having "fining" power over other homeowners. I see the case as a great example of the type of conduct frequently encountered with HOA board members and the vendors that encourage board members to engage in such conduct.

None of GCharlotte's side roads here address the OP's original question. The OP is looking for an attorney to represent herself, a homeowner. She is NOT interested in an industry attorney that represents the interests of vendor trade groups such as Community Associations Institute and who seek to empower HOA corporations and vendors over homeowners. The OP might want to contact attorneys that represent homeowners. The OP might start with the attorney that represented the Armstrongs in their case against the Ledges of Hidden Hills. His name is Roy H. Michaux, Jr. and he is right there in Charlotte. If he is not available, he might be able to refer you to other non-trade group attorneys.
see, http://www.ledgesofhiddenhills.com/home.html

[tigrillo1972]

Hi
The HOA are fined me because the side of my house has mold. That is not true. However we called them to let them know and we even invite them to come see it. They still argue that that side is dirty.
Now the is a fine for 100 each day that it supposedly is dirty !!
Is it worth it to sue them!

[Suncc49]

Originally Posted by tigrillo1972

Hi
The HOA are fined me because the side of my house has mold. That is not true. However we called them to let them know and we even invite them to come see it. They still argue that that side is dirty.
Now the is a fine for 100 each day that it supposedly is dirty !!
Is it worth it to sue them!

Yes by all means sue them.... or pay pressure washer man $100.00 to clean side of house?!?!?!?!

[VT'ah]

what a surprise, you are having trouble with an charlotte area HOA. Listen, nobody cares about you around here so just deal with it or move. i tried fighting for 2 years and its a losing battle..and the lawyers will just rip you off as well...forget it...