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Seeing as how there is a 50 year no compete clause, I'm pretty sure things in the future will be much much worse compared with a non-toll road option (which one would assume would eventually involved more free lanes).
And don't forget, trucks are barred from the toll lanes. Either a trucking by-pass will be constructed (which would cost more than just widening 77 would have) or trucking dependent industries will relocate out of the Charlotte metro. With the worsening trucker and chassis (for ocean containers) shortages, downtime for traffic is very expensive.
It has nothing to do with resources being spread around. It’s due to the fact that the Triangle never got f’ed over with a crappy contract with Cintra. Suggest that Cintra build HOT lanes on I-40 in Raleigh under the same 50-year contract and see what kind of reaction you’ll get.
Raleigh has also complained in the past about highway funding being diverted elsewhere, with eastern NC catching most of the flak, though I think some of it was unwarranted. This was before the current scoring formula, which is one of the very few things McCrory got right.
I'm a Triangle native and I've never ever heard anyone complain about funding & projects going to other parts of the state.
You're right the foreign company and not being able to add more lanes or parallel roads for 50 years would have the Triangle folks very upset.
McCrory's greatest accomplishment was the overhaul of how highway funding is allocated.
NC can buy out Cintra at any time during the 50 years with that $200-$300 million penalty which I think is worth it.
I feel confident that the state will take over as the payee and kick Cintra to the curb eventually.
And don't forget, trucks are barred from the toll lanes. Either a trucking by-pass will be constructed (which would cost more than just widening 77 would have) or trucking dependent industries will relocate out of the Charlotte metro. With the worsening trucker and chassis (for ocean containers) shortages, downtime for traffic is very expensive.
I think this is a stretch for a couple reasons:
1. 77 isn’t the only interstate in the metro with bad traffic. 85 can be just as bad if not worse at times, and IMO is more unpredictable. 77 in my experience outside of when the construction is happening now is really the worst during rush hours.
2. There are alternate routes to avoid 77 without too much added time if you’re just a trucker passing through (321, 16).
Looks like they are going to do what Seattle tried to do.. The toll lanes did not remedy the traffic at all in the Seattle area, but it ended up putting millions of extra dollars in the bank accounts of the Washington state government. People in Washington are furious about the toll lanes. I found it funny that I was driving through Bellevue, WA at 6:30PM during Rush hour up to Bothell (about 15 mile drive) and I was actually passing the people in their Lexus's, BMWs, Benzes while they were stuck going slow because of the number of people paying the $7-10 fee or so to use that lane. How ironic? I was even waving and smiling at some of them and kinda sticking my tongue out (in a very modest way ) as I zipped by them. Just because you pay more money to use a lane doesn't mean it is a better lane to use.. What is the old adage, not all that glitters is gold
Charlotte hardly even has any bad traffic compared to most West Coast cities so I Feel these toll lanes are just a ploy to enrich the state government. Not a bad idea.. If I was a politician who cared about schemes to enrich the state I'd make every freeway have toll lanes. Hope they don't charge the $7-10 lane fees they do on I-405 in the Puget Sound during Rush hour.
Oh, BTW, if anyone doesn't believe me about the rates for I-405 in the Puget Sound at Rush Hour, you can take a look at the WSDOT website yourselves https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/405/rates.htm
One article about the failure of Seattle's toll lanes and how now many politicians are pushing to raise the maximum rates above $10... Hey, I bet if they charge $100 to use the lane, you could go as fast as the speed of light during rush hour! Basically, toll lanes only will help the rich and affluent and the average Joe's will get to have even longer than normal commute times.. How accommodating of our government! https://crosscut.com/2018/02/i-405-t...mes-not-enough
Last edited by RotseCherut; 08-06-2018 at 09:09 PM..
Looks like they are going to do what Seattle tried to do.. The toll lanes did not remedy the traffic at all in the Seattle area, but it ended up putting millions of extra dollars in the bank accounts of the Washington state government. People in Washington are furious about the toll lanes. I found it funny that I was driving through Bellevue, WA at 6:30PM during Rush hour up to Bothell (about 15 mile drive) and I was actually passing the people in their Lexus's, BMWs, Benzes while they were stuck going slow because of the number of people paying the $7-10 fee or so to use that lane. How ironic? I was even waving and smiling at some of them and kinda sticking my tongue out (in a very modest way ) as I zipped by them. Just because you pay more money to use a lane doesn't mean it is a better lane to use.. What is the old adage, not all that glitters is gold
Charlotte hardly even has any bad traffic compared to most West Coast cities so I Feel these toll lanes are just a ploy to enrich the state government. Not a bad idea.. If I was a politician who cared about schemes to enrich the state I'd make every freeway have toll lanes. Hope they don't charge the $7-10 lane fees they do on I-405 in the Puget Sound during Rush hour.
Oh, BTW, if anyone doesn't believe me about the rates for I-405 in the Puget Sound at Rush Hour, you can take a look at the WSDOT website yourselves https://www.wsdot.wa.gov/Tolling/405/rates.htm
One article about the failure of Seattle's toll lanes and how now many politicians are pushing to raise the maximum rates above $10... Hey, I bet if they charge $100 to use the lane, you could go as fast as the speed of light during rush hour! Basically, toll lanes only will help the rich and affluent and the average Joe's will get to have even longer than normal commute times.. How accommodating of our government! https://crosscut.com/2018/02/i-405-t...mes-not-enough
Since the toll lanes will be run by a foreign company it wouldn't be the state of North Carolina getting rich. It will be the taxpayers on the hook if they fail.
I lived in the DC area before moving down here. The toll road up there also has surge pricing.
You're new to the area. Give it time and if you commute up and down 77 long enough, you'll see how bad traffic sucks and how bad the drivers are around here. You cannot merge onto a highway going 40 when the speed limit is 70.
Looking forward to next week. On August 15, NC DOT head Trogdon is expected to announce what will be done (if anything) to the I-77 toll lane project.
Although I am mentally in the "cancel the whole damned thing" or even "complete and delete" camps, I have a feeling they may choose the option that would make the extra lane toll-free from Mooresville to Huntersville.
That would be a sign of capitulation on their part, but still allow them to toll the lanes on the heaviest part of the Charlotte commute.
Pretty much what I figured, modify the contract short term with the intention to own the project at some point. The major issue to me is that any changes cost something & has to be paid with revenue from some where, so it's either take money from other projects or use toll revenue to cover the cost (most likely). With that said I doubt any extra free capacity happens except between exits 30-36& everything else will be temporary capacity like hardened shoulders & auxiliary lanes between exits
Fixed prices for the first six months (with transponder):
Rush hour (Weekdays 6:30-9 AM and 3-7 PM): $6.55 one-way for the full 26-mile trip from Charlotte to Mooresville (less depending on how far you go).
Non-rush hour: $4.20 one-way for the full 26-mile trip
After the first six months, variable pricing will begin but according to the article the maximum toll will be $9.40 for the full 26-mile trip.
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) as I zipped by them. Just because you pay more money to use a lane doesn't mean it is a better lane to use.. What is the old adage, not all that glitters is gold 
