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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Originally Posted by Essequamvideri
I don't know what to take away from your one off encounter. What is your point? Assuming her opinion is that segregated schools are better, what weight should we give it? Indeed there are many opinions, but some are more valuable or insightful than others. If she thinks segregated schools are better for blacks she is certainly in the minority and incorrect.
There you go again. You like to say that other people's views are incorrect. Again, one last time. I told you that she started school in segregated schools & then was moved to integrated schools. She told me that she was conflicted about integrated schools. Do you understand that? You didn't understand what NDL said, either. He had to correct you.
During the busing years, was West Charlotte the only majority black school where white kids were sent? What was the racial makeup during that time (after the busing was implemented)? Was it the 60% white, 40% black that I've seen referenced as the breakdown of total CMS at the time?
I think we've talked in other threads that you could probably add some disadvantaged students to the majority white schools and they'd probably still be pretty good. The problem is there really aren't that many majority white schools. To kind of answer my own question from before, CMS is currently only 30% white, half the percentage that it was during the busing years. So with a higher percentage of disadvantaged students in the district as a whole, doesn't seem like you would see as much success as the last time around (even if they did go all out with the busing which I think they've been pretty clear in saying they won't).
During the busing years, was West Charlotte the only majority black school where white kids were sent? What was the racial makeup during that time (after the busing was implemented)? Was it the 60% white, 40% black that I've seen referenced as the breakdown of total CMS at the time?
I think we've talked in other threads that you could probably add some disadvantaged students to the majority white schools and they'd probably still be pretty good. The problem is there really aren't that many majority white schools. To kind of answer my own question from before, CMS is currently only 30% white, half the percentage that it was during the busing years. So with a higher percentage of disadvantaged students in the district as a whole, doesn't seem like you would see as much success as the last time around (even if they did go all out with the busing which I think they've been pretty clear in saying they won't).
The old adage comes to mind, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Making sure that all schools have the basic equipment required to teach a class is the important thing. As long as students have a choice (and not a last minute decision) to attend a better school, there should be no question of opportunities.
There you go again. You like to say that other people's views are incorrect. Again, one last time. I told you that she started school in segregated schools & then was moved to integrated schools. She told me that she was conflicted about integrated schools. Do you understand that? You didn't understand what NDL said, either. He had to correct you.
If you're noticing a trend of me shutting down ignorance and misinformation, kudos to you. I can't keep up with all of it and choose to ignore a good deal, but there is a lot of it on this forum.
All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others. I can have an opinion that it's warm outside at 45 degrees and be wrong.
What facts or support can you (or your lady friend) share to make the argument that segregated schools are better? Do you think simply sharing that she is black validates her opinion? She can be wrong and black on this one.
The failures of separate but equal are well documented and largely agreed upon by educated America. There is a growing group of white and black nationalists that advocate for segregation, but thankfully, these polarized kooks are dismissed by most of America. I think that the growth of these ignorant perspectives is a result of a more segregated society and abandonment of civic duty/social responsibility in our communities. We are more connected and dependent that most would admit and the failures of our poor neighbors a scars that we all will bear. The prescription for such ignorance is more empathy/diversity/understanding.
NDL's observation was built from the premise of "all whites are racist". I haven't said that and I don't believe it. Remarking that the black/white dichotomy is unique isn't profound to me. I do think blacks have unique bias and obstacles in history. But the entire argument isn't related to the OP IMO. I do think his anecdote supported the opposite point as strongly as it did his own, and pointed that out for him.
This issue shouldn't be about blame/shame as I don't find that productive. It should be about solving a problem (concentrations of high poverty). Agreeing on that problem is step one. It shouldn't be that difficult.
Do you really need me to explain why separate and equal was never separate and equal in education? Was that topic not covered in your history book profiling the victimization of vikings? Do some research.
The old adage comes to mind, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Making sure that all schools have the basic equipment required to teach a class is the important thing. As long as students have a choice (and not a last minute decision) to attend a better school, there should be no question of opportunities.
This is a great point. Since busing was ended, they have not had that choice, and this opportunity is something that many are advocating for. There is a question of opportunity, because it has not been available.
During the busing years, was West Charlotte the only majority black school where white kids were sent? What was the racial makeup during that time (after the busing was implemented)? Was it the 60% white, 40% black that I've seen referenced as the breakdown of total CMS at the time?
I think we've talked in other threads that you could probably add some disadvantaged students to the majority white schools and they'd probably still be pretty good. The problem is there really aren't that many majority white schools. To kind of answer my own question from before, CMS is currently only 30% white, half the percentage that it was during the busing years. So with a higher percentage of disadvantaged students in the district as a whole, doesn't seem like you would see as much success as the last time around (even if they did go all out with the busing which I think they've been pretty clear in saying they won't).
I don't know the exact counts but when I arrived I would guess it was 60% white and when I graduated it was less than 5% white. There were only a handful of white males beneath me in the school when I graduated. It was sad to watch (for everyone). Granted, this was just one school and I know that we are all biased based on our experiences, but the pressures and causes of such a shift in demographics were frustrating as they were difficult to pinpoint. Most of my white peers have graduated thankful and better for the experience. And statistics have proven the benefits in other schools like West Charlotte. It's a shame that we let the model deteriorate and all the more sad that it was ruined by a lawsuit from an out of towner crying foul over his suburban school assignment to a great school!
You're right that the district is less "white" than it was 30 years ago. None of the solutions I've seen proposed have suggested distributing white kids around the county. I don't think CMS will ever use quotas based on race to build plans for school composition. Race isn't the focus as much as socioeconomic status. They are correlated though.
CMS needs to do a better job of recruiting/reassuring affluent parents that the district can meet/exceed their expectations. I have first hand knowledge having working in public/private education that the services CMS provides and talent of the teachers in whole are on par or better than anything you pay for in town. This isn't very well known around town. I think it's easy to bash CMS since it's so big and frankly, since they don't do a very good job advocating/marketing for themselves...a lot of this is due to the fact that such functions cost money and CMS is pretty tight. There is also a gained status of sending a kid to private school that would do just as well in a public one but the family wants the status of being in a private one...I'm not sure how CMS recruits against that 'keeping up with the joneses' mentality as it will always be there for some.
There is always an assumption that big gubment has a ton of waste, but when you work in schools you see that on the day to day, the schools are pretty strapped for resources. They have an uphill battle for sure. The good news is that as Charlotte grows there will be natural pressure to improve some of the better located but poverty stricken areas.
Gentrification is controversial but could be a positive impact on the academic conditions of these schools. I think the return of an urban high school in center city may be an opportunity for an instantly diverse/successful school.
You're right that the solution isn't going to be simply derived by shuffling students. This is dependent on the improvement of neighborhoods through city council initiatives/urban planning/housing/neighbor moreso than student assignment planning. One difficulty is that there is so much misinformation about what CMS is trying to do with their current assignment plan that the fear overwhelms sensible discussion and becomes a race debate and spirals into "us/them", "not my fault", "nothing we can do" instead of simply looking at the facts. And when that continues to happen the poor kids stuck in these failing schools continue to be neglected.
If CMS would cut some of its ridiculous overhead, and put that money, and it is a lot, to meaningful financial incentives to teach at the poor performing schools, the problem could be solved, overnight.
As we used to say in the Pentagon, "Money talks, BS walks." Everybody has a price!
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