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Old 07-24-2008, 11:51 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,879 posts, read 77,464,470 times
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I know I have seen several of the authors on TV, reviewing their books or answering questions. Walid Shoebat - I have seen on CNN. Walid Phares- I have read some of his work and he has appeared on every possible media outlet, including testifying b/f Congress (and I have seen clips from his testimony in Congress - C-SPAN I think). I know he is highly regarded in both Europe and USA.
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Old 07-24-2008, 11:59 AM
 
156 posts, read 270,054 times
Reputation: 74
"Please do your research. "

I don't need to do research. I AM Muslim and I CHOSE to be one.

I would like to know where you get your information from. What are your sources?

Obviously and of course I will have my own resources. I have read the Quran and many other books and the religion is not what you are saying it to be.

But this is my opinion.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:07 PM
 
830 posts, read 1,530,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
The troubling thing about Islam is that at its core is the belief that all people are born as a Muslim . . . and if a person is "corrupted" by a different belief system, they must be re-introduced to Islam . . . and if a person chooses to reject Islam (apostasy) they are to be put to death. That is not religious tolerance. That is what concerns me about Islam.

Read this about Iranian law . . . concerning a bill re: use of internet - if the subject would corrupt or lead to apostasy. This is not the mindset of a religion that promotes "peace."

Dhimmi Watch: Iranian parliament considers death penalty for encouraging apostasy from Islam and other means of "harming mental security in society" over the Internet
Yet, over the centuries, Islam has proven to be quite tolerant of other religions.

Radical, militant Islam today is being used by a few to exploit the undercurrents/resentments of a population that, by and large, has not been a part of rising standards of living on par with other parts of the world. And despite happening to sit on such wealth of oil, many Islamic citizens have been "left behind" in the global economy while their "leaders" get rich. This is why the so-called "war on terror" is as much or more about economic opportunities as it is about military action.

In general, you don't see the same level of resentment among Muslim Americans as you do in Europe because Muslim Americans have, by and large, assimilated well and done well in American society. The same is not true in Europe, where poverty and lack of opportunity among 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants, in particular, have fed social unrest.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,664,987 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by callalillies View Post
"Please do your research. "

I don't need to do research. I AM Muslim and I CHOSE to be one.

I would like to know where you get your information from. What are your sources?

Obviously and of course I will have my own resources. I have read the Quran and many other books and the religion is not what you are saying it to be.

But this is my opinion.
lol...did you miss the list of books I provided? How devout are you? We must not be reading the same Quranic verses.

But I'm not going to sit here and argue with you, as Islamic historical record speaks for itself.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,664,987 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlterp View Post
Yet, over the centuries, Islam has proven to be quite tolerant of other religions.

Radical, militant Islam today is being used by a few to exploit the undercurrents/resentments of a population that, by and large, has not been a part of rising standards of living on par with other parts of the world. And despite happening to sit on such wealth of oil, many Islamic citizens have been "left behind" in the global economy while their "leaders" get rich. This is why the so-called "war on terror" is as much or more about economic opportunities as it is about military action.

In general, you don't see the same level of resentment among Muslim Americans as you do in Europe because Muslim Americans have, by and large, assimilated well and done well in American society. The same is not true in Europe, where poverty and lack of opportunity among 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants, in particular, have fed social unrest.
Oh really? Ok, I guess by tolerance you mean living under a dhimmitude? If you're still not sure what a dhimmi is, go to this wiki: Dhimmi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia There is good and factual information here, so need to criticize the source.

Robert Spencer outlines the threat of the dhimmi:

Quote:
Why Dhimmi Watch?

IT IS LONG PAST time to bring the world's attention to a global scandal.

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race.

If dhimmis complained about their inferior status, institutionalized humiliation, or poverty, their masters voided their contract and regarded them as enemies of Islam, fair game as objects of violence. Consequently, dhimmis were generally cowed into silence and worse. It was almost unheard-of to find dhimmis speaking out against their oppressors; to do so would have been suicide. For centuries dhimmi communities in the Islamic world learned to live in peace with their Muslim overlords by acquiescing to their subservience. Some even actively identified with the dominant class, and became strenuous advocates for it.

Spearheaded by dhimmi academics and self-serving advocacy groups, that same attitude of chastened subservience has entered into Western academic study of Islam, and from there into journalism, school textbooks, and the popular discourse. One must not point out the depredations of jihad and dhimmitude; to do so would offend the multiculturalist ethos that prevails everywhere today. To do so would endanger chances for peace and rapprochement between civilizations all too ready to clash.

But in this era of global terrorism it must be said: this silence, this distortion, has become deadly. Before 9/11 it was easy to ignore and whitewash dhimmitude, but the atrocities changed the situation forever. In jihads throughout history, untold millions have died. Tens of millions have been uprooted from their homes. Tens of millions have been stripped of their cultural identity. To continue to gloss over the destruction wrought by jihad ideology and its attendant evil of dhimmitude is today to play into the hands of jihadists, who have repeatedly vowed to dhimmify the West and destroy any recalcitrant elements. While jihadist groups, even with their global diffusion, are not strong enough to realize this goal by themselves, they have a potent and destructive ally, a genuine fifth column, in the dhimmi academics and dhimmi journalists they have recruited in the West. They have succeeded in confusing millions in the West into mistaking honesty and truthfulness for bigotry, and self-defense for oppression.

Before it's too late for Western Europe and the United States, which gave birth to the traditions of freedom and equality of rights for all that shine today as lights in the entire world, this must be stopped. Therefore Dhimmi Watch seeks to bring public attention to:

* The plight of the dhimmis, an immense but almost completely ignored ongoing scandal that continues in Muslim countries today;
* The plight of women under Sharia provisions, similar to conditions imposed on dhimmis, in the denial of equal rights and dignity;
* Slavery in Islamic lands, which continues today, justified by Sharia-'s dhimmi codes;
* The integral role of jihad and dhimmitude ideology in global terrorism today;
* The license that academic and journalistic whitewashes of dhimmitude gives to radical jihadist enemies of human rights for all.

Dhimmi Watch fights to ensure that deeds done in the darkness for so long will not continue to be done. The light of world attention is anathema to the proponents of jihad and dhimmitude: we have seen in recent years that women sentenced to stoning for adultery, often victims of rape unjustly accused thanks to Sharia laws disallowing rape victims' testimony, were freed following international outcry. Dhimmi Watch will seek to provoke similar, continuous and increasing outcry wherever and whenever the Sharia's institutionalized injustices threaten dhimmis and women.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:29 PM
 
830 posts, read 1,530,150 times
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Dhimmi Watch, are you kidding me?
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,664,987 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlterp View Post
Dhimmi Watch, are you kidding me?
It's funny how you can scoff at a source, without understanding the information. Are all of you like this? (I think I know the answer to that). The point of the source is to provide information on the modern dhimmi and how it is infiltrating Western society.

Let's try one more time: do you know what a dhimmi is? When you learn, come back and talk to me.

Edit: I just noticed that link only took you to the source without offering a home page. Here is the parent website: http://jihadwatch.org/ Laugh all you want, but the truth is there.
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:47 PM
 
830 posts, read 1,530,150 times
Reputation: 608
The truth, or the truth as you would want to believe it, provided by Robert Spencer?
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:49 PM
 
830 posts, read 1,530,150 times
Reputation: 608
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
It's funny how you can scoff at a source, without understanding the information. Are all of you like this? (I think I know the answer to that). The point of the source is to provide information on the modern dhimmi and how it is infiltrating Western society.

Let's try one more time: do you know what a dhimmi is? When you learn, come back and talk to me.

Edit: I just noticed that link only took you to the source without offering a home page. Here is the parent website: Jihad Watch Laugh all you want, but the truth is there.
Who is "all of you", anyhow?
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Old 07-24-2008, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,664,987 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by stlterp View Post
Who is "all of you", anyhow?
Like-minded liberals.

You know what, forget about Robert Spencer. This is probably the first time you ever heard of the guy. It's probably the first time you've heard the term, "dhimmi."

Go read a book about dhimmi, or search for it online. Do your own research. Then research the modern theocratic governments and their establishment of Sharia Law. Then do a search on the dogma of radical Islamic terrorist groups around the world (look up Hezbollah and Hamas for starters). Let me know what you find (somehow I don't think you'll even begin the research).
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