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First of all, I feel we should add some perspective to those numbers your throwing out there. Cook County is 26.14% black according to the 2000 Census. Illinois is 17% black and America is 13% black.
Second of all, I'm pretty sure there's a performance gap between white kids and black kids at those schools you're boosting. This is a performance gap that I know doesn't exist at H-F. How you can say Evonston Township and Oak Park-River Forest is a "successfully integrated school" and H-F isn't a "successfully integrated school" is beyond me.
Actually, there are huge performance gaps between whites and black at Evanston Township HS, OPRF, and Homewood Flossmoor High School with H-F having the smallest gap of the three. Black kids do perform significantly better at HFHS, but their scores still pale in comparison to their white counterparts.
There's a huge difference between Homewood/Flossmoor and the "best integrated" suburbs, like Oak Park and Evanston. And that's the trajectory of the demographics in the public high school.
In H-F, change is all in the last 20 years. H-F High was 14 percent black in 1989, then 29 percent in 1999, then 58 percent in 2009.
Contrast that with the most successfully integrated schools in the area, which have had significant black populations for much longer: Oak-Park River Forest was 23 percent black in 1989, then peaked at 32 percent in 1999, then declined to 27 percent in 2009. Evanston Township showed a similar pattern: 42 percent black in 1989, 44 percent in 1999, 36 percent in 2009.
I can't predict the future with regard to H-F, but the dynamics there are clearly very, very different from Oak Park and Evanston.
This is mostly attributed to homewood-flossmor, and olympia fields having a larger pool of affluent blacks than evanston, oak park-river forest. Mainly do to the south side of chicago having a larger number of affluent blacks then the northside and westside. The area attracts a larger number of affluent blacks than oak park-riverforest and evanston because of this. Even the CEO of Comed who is black lives in flossmoor. Countless other wealthy blacks also live in the area. R Kelly has a mansion in olympia fields. You could almost do a black history month special based just on the successful blacks that live in the area.
That being said, the areas white residents are just as affluent overall. Median white household income in flossmoor is over 100k and over 100k in olympia fields also. I grew up in the area and moved back here. I know quite a few people I went to school with who now own homes in the area, both white and black. Pretty much all college educated in well paid professional careers. There are some pretty impressive success stories from alot of people who live out here which tends to get overlooked when just talking about the racial makeup. I find that the integration in flossmoor, homewood, and olympia fields goes alot further than just looking at the trending ratio of the number of blacks in the public school district. Because, there are too many top private schools in the the area to count. Also the age demographics in the area tends to be slightly older. The median age of olympia fields residents is 50.1 years of age and flossmoor is 44.3 years of age. And the integration is a bit different than oak park or evanston. Very few parts of town in the area where you don't have several black or white neighbors. There is no exclusively lower income black part of town or exclusively higher income white part of town. Which has helped to alleviate the fear that more blacks means more low income. That doesn't equate for this area.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-12-2011 at 09:05 AM..
Well You might as well cross Westmont out. Too far from work.
Oak Park & Flossmoor are mostly Black and White. Dont really know much about Flossmoor but it seems more intergrated than Oak Park. but i may be wrong. Plus its closer to the job.
Comparing to Evanston would be a major stretch -- I don't believe I did that. I mentioned Beverly -- whose high school (MPHS) turned majority black in the 70s. Oak Park isn't a perfect analogy but, even as it began to change, it got the 100% definite "it will be all black in 5 years" label. You might say in retrospect that, well, the high school never reached the "tipping point", but few back then saw it that way. Point is that the issues are a least a bit more complex than people tend to make them out to be. We'll see what happens. I personally would have no problem buying in Flossmoor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns
There's a huge difference between Homewood/Flossmoor and the "best integrated" suburbs, like Oak Park and Evanston. And that's the trajectory of the demographics in the public high school.
In H-F, change is all in the last 20 years. H-F High was 14 percent black in 1989, then 29 percent in 1999, then 58 percent in 2009.
Contrast that with the most successfully integrated schools in the area, which have had significant black populations for much longer: Oak-Park River Forest was 23 percent black in 1989, then peaked at 32 percent in 1999, then declined to 27 percent in 2009. Evanston Township showed a similar pattern: 42 percent black in 1989, 44 percent in 1999, 36 percent in 2009.
I can't predict the future with regard to H-F, but the dynamics there are clearly very, very different from Oak Park and Evanston.
Oak Park is not nearly as diverse as folks imply if you eliminate the first couple of blocks west of Austin. As you approach River Forest, it becomes even less diverse.
Also, very few hispanics in Oak Park. My hispanic girlfriend is not considered diverse by Oak Park Housing Authority but if she were black she would be. I find that odd, especially as her first language is Spanish.
I was looking at properties thru Baird Warner that had sold in Flossmor and Olympia Fields. You can literally buy the same home in Hinsdale/Oak Brook/Elmhurst for double the money, sometimes more.
There are 4000 sq ft brick newer construction homes that have sold for only 250k in Olympia Fields. Other than HF school district, what is driving such lower prices? Given the high average incomes of the residents I would have expected homes to be priced higher.
I would say the better general market price comparison to flossmoor and olympia fields would be frankfort since frankfort is over 88 percent white, nearby, similarly high property taxes which does have to get factored into price, very affluent with a median family income of $122,045 (a bit higher than both flossmoor and olympia fields), . Average home sales prices in flossmoor, olympia fields, and frankfort are currently very comparable. Flossmoor actually has slightly higher recent average home sales prices than frankfort.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-12-2011 at 08:54 AM..
House prices in Flossmor and Olympia Fields are cheap compared to western suburbs. What is driving this?
Can you buy 4000 sq ft brick home in Frankfort for 250k? I know for a fact there are homes in Olympia Fields that have sold for that amount.
I am almost 100 percent sure you are probably referring to a foreclosed home or short sale. If so, that is probably your answer. As for recent average home sales prices of homes actually being sold. Frankfort, flossmoor, and olympia fields are currently very comparable. With flossmoor being slightly the highest of the three. And as for neighboring olympia fields, it's a much smaller suburb. Half of the land in olympia fields is the prestigous olympia fields golf course. Home of the 2003 US open and the upcoming 2015 US amateurs. Olympia Fields has a slightly older demographics and a much lower turn over. Not very many larger homes currently on the market in olympia fields. Only 1 home over 4000 sqft currently on the market total. Definitely not one of those areas that are currently over saturated with listings of much cheaper larger homes.
The western suburbs as a region had higher home prices to begin with. If you go back and look at 2000 average home sales prices before the bubble you can clearly see this. Taking racial demographics of an area like flossmoor totally out of the equation and looking at say overwhemingly majority white frankfort, this is also true when comparing frankfort to the western suburbs.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-12-2011 at 11:03 AM..
With all due respect, Allen, another thing that bugs me about this forum is the way Olympia Fields and Homewood-Flossmoor are talked about in the same breath. Olympia Fields is Rich Township which includes Park Forest, Matteson, Olympia Fields and Richton Park. Anyone familiar with the area knows that Lincoln Highway (a major shopping and dining area) connects Matteson, Olympia Fields, Chicago Heights and then Ford Heights but no one really goes to that last one unless they're heading elsewhere. The Olympia Fields part of Lincoln Highway has Park Forest housing just south of there but the businesses on Lincoln Highway are considered Olympia Fields. When I was a teenager, I used to walk to the Blockbuster in Olympia Fields from my house on the far north side of Park Forest (it saddens me that they will officially be out of business tomorrow). As far as shopping, driving, bordering neighborhoods and schooling are concerned, Olympia Fields is more connected with Park Forest and Matteson than Homewood and Flossmoor.
Let me put it like this: Olympia Fields, Matteson, Park Forest and Richton Park are siblings that grew up in the same household (Rich Township). Richton Park called up Olympia Fields one time asking for bail money and Park Forest used to bring unsavory characters around the house that Olympia Fields didn't appreciate. They got into a lot of trouble growing up and sometimes Olympia Fields likes to pretend like she doesn't even Richton Park and Park Forest even though they're her own brothers. Chicago Heights was a foster child who lived in the house for a couple years. Matteson tries to compete with Olympia Fields' sucess but there's no contest. Olympia Fields actually covered for Matteson one time when she came home drunk as a skunk. Mom and dad never found it because the "good kid" Olympia Fields covered for her.
Where does Homewood and Flossmoor stand? They're Olympia Fields cousins' who just happen to have more in common with Olympia Fields than her own siblings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allen2323
This is mostly attributed to homewood-flossmor, and olympia fields having a larger pool of affluent blacks than evanston, oak park-river forest.
What does Olympia Fields have to do with anything? Not a single kid in Olympia Fields attends any public school in Homewood or Flossmoor. Not one. Affluent blacks in Olympia Fields don't affect H-F any more than broke Mod Edit in Park Forest and Richton Park affect it, lol. No, not everyone living in Park Forest and Richton Park is broke but some folks in the area are as broke as the ten Commandments.
Rich Central is a very different place than H-F. For instance, H-F doesn't have local police standing guard in the hallways or "zero tolerance" policies. All of the Rich Township high schools do.
A very funny but pretty much true comment. Olympia fields is a very small suburb with basically just a prestigous golf course and some really nice subdivisions. Several of the subdivisions surrounding the golf course. The "flossmoor estates" part of flossmoor is by far the most affluent area in the entire far south suburban region, which is one of the main parts of flossmoor that neighbors much of olympia fields and the olympia fields golf course. Olympia Fields from an overall standpoint is a bit more affluent than flossmoor overall, but not by very much and olympia fields is much smaller. From a median household income standpoint, olympia fields has way more in common with flossmoor. That being said, Matteson is to olympia fields what homewood is to flossmoor. The only part of park forest bordering olympia fields is on the other side of busy lincoln hwy across from the upscale maynegaite subdivision. The part of chicago heights where Marion Catholic Highschool is located borders the affluent Graymoor and the Wysteria subdivisions.
Last edited by allen2323; 02-12-2011 at 07:10 PM..
The subdivisions that I mentioned are fairly affluent. Not every house a stately mansion affluent. But you know larger homes.
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