Moving to the Homewood/Flossmoor area (Mokena, Palos Heights: home, public school, taxes)

[Naper_Tiger]

Originally Posted by urza216

Makes sense. As blacks become more upwardly mobile, they got to live somewhere. It's not "white flight" at all. I have literally never heard anyone complain about this neighorhorhbood to the point of thinking about fleeing. But it is true that there are more middle class blacks these days. And they got to live somewhere... They move here where it isn't racist as hell like some other Chicago suburbs.

Note that I said "heard" not "read on City-Data".

I'm not sure if your anecdotal evidence of "have literally never heard anyone complain about this neighorhorhbood" deserves as much credibility as hard data from the 2000 and 2010 census. Have you interviewed all of the white residents who moved and any potential residents who decided against Homewood because of its changing demographic? Homewood and other South Suburbs are changing rapidly. I'm not saying it is for the better, or for the worse. I'm not saying that the new mainly African American residents spell doom for the South Suburbs. I was just pointing out that your statement that Homewood is not "rapidly changing" doesn't match with the data. An almost 84% increase in the AA population together with an almost 25% decrease in the white population seems like "rapidly changing" conditions to me.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by Naper_Tiger

I'm not sure if your anecdotal evidence of "have literally never heard anyone complain about this neighorhorhbood" deserves as much credibility as hard data from the 2000 and 2010 census. Have you interviewed all of the white residents who moved and any potential residents who decided against Homewood because of its changing demographic? Homewood and other South Suburbs are changing rapidly. I'm not saying it is for the better, or for the worse. I'm not saying that the new mainly African American residents spell doom for the South Suburbs. I was just pointing out that your statement that Homewood is not "rapidly changing" doesn't match with the data. An almost 84% increase in the AA population together with an almost 25% decrease in the white population seems like "rapidly changing" conditions to me.

I just explained the data... Obviously black people are moving up in the world. Hence, the data. It doesn't mean white people are leaving. White flight has ALREADY happened in the south suburbs.

The new larger numbers of class black people got to move somewhere. And they got to buy the house from someone. I'm well aware of the data and I just explained it. It's not my fault you can't comprehend this concept.

The ironic thing is that these stats from 5 years ago sound about right. I mean, that sounds like what the racial demographics of Homewood are today. It will be very interesting what the 2020 stats say.

[chet everett]

There is no evidence of any "growing middle class" in Illinois -- Report: Credit Score Disparities Contribute To Racial Wealth Gap In Illinois | Progress Illinois

Declining Fortunes - Middle Class Faced Threats Prior to Great Recession | WUIS 91.9

[Naper_Tiger]

Originally Posted by urza216

I just explained the data... Obviously black people are moving up in the world. Hence, the data. It doesn't mean white people are leaving. White flight has ALREADY happened in the south suburbs.

The new larger numbers of class black people got to move somewhere. And they got to buy the house from someone. I'm well aware of the data and I just explained it. It's not my fault you can't comprehend this concept.

Perhaps I do have trouble comprehending. In the second paragraph, you say that larger numbers of class black (I'm not sure if you meant middle or upper middle class) people have to move somewhere,and they have to buy the house from someone (who I am assuming is white). But then where does that white seller go? They must somehow stay in Homewood as to not upset the "white people aren't leaving" theory.

The bottom line is that you made a statement that Homewood was not "rapidly changing." I recalled that some south surburbs posters here were surprised by the demographic change in the 2010 census. That discussion coupled with your assertion interested me. So I looked up only to see the change in white and black populations, and although you disagree, it's a big change. I made no effort to find data on wealth of the black residents moving to Homewood or to find data on the wealth of the white residents who are selling. I made no effort to see if researchers have interviewed people on why they move and why the leave Homewood.

I would be more than happy if you could steer me towards data, articles or studies that confirm your conjecture about the larger number of black middle class moving to Homewood. And I would appreciate if you clarify what happens to that white seller in Homewood. If he/she moves somewhere else, isn't that leaving?

[Chuckity]

Originally Posted by Naper_Tiger

Perhaps I do have trouble comprehending. In the second paragraph, you say that larger numbers of class black (I'm not sure if you meant middle or upper middle class) people have to move somewhere,and they have to buy the house from someone (who I am assuming is white). But then where does that white seller go? They must somehow stay in Homewood as to not upset the "white people aren't leaving" theory.

The bottom line is that you made a statement that Homewood was not "rapidly changing." I recalled that some south surburbs posters here were surprised by the demographic change in the 2010 census. That discussion coupled with your assertion interested me. So I looked up only to see the change in white and black populations, and although you disagree, it's a big change. I made no effort to find data on wealth of the black residents moving to Homewood or to find data on the wealth of the white residents who are selling. I made no effort to see if researchers have interviewed people on why they move and why the leave Homewood.

I would be more than happy if you could steer me towards data, articles or studies that confirm your conjecture about the larger number of black middle class moving to Homewood. And I would appreciate if you clarify what happens to that white seller in Homewood. If he/she moves somewhere else, isn't that leaving?

I'm white and I moved from Homewood in 2001. And several friends & family who lived in HF moved out around the same time.

It wasn't changing demographics which caused the move for us - though demographics did change substantially from white to black when you compare 2000 to 2010. And though I obviously don't and can't speak for every white person that moved, I can speak for myself and several people who sold at that time.

The major reason for the move was the schools - Homewood was changing from neighborhood schools to grade centers. Which in hindsight, I think everyone would agree that it wasn't a great idea because that's when school scores/ratings started to slip.

[gregbuck]

Originally Posted by Chuckity

I'm white and I moved from Homewood in 2001. And several friends & family who lived in HF moved out around the same time.

It wasn't changing demographics which caused the move for us - though demographics did change substantially from white to black when you compare 2000 to 2010. And though I obviously don't and can't speak for every white person that moved, I can speak for myself and several people who sold at that time.

The major reason for the move was the schools - Homewood was changing from neighborhood schools to grade centers. Which in hindsight, I think everyone would agree that it wasn't a great idea because that's when school scores/ratings started to slip.

The decline in the percentage of one racial ethnicity coinciding with the increase in the percentage of another. Happens all the time and is basically happening now more than ever. Not unique to Homewood at all. Whites 78.1% in 2000. And 59.5% in 2010. Not nearly as drastic as some make it out to be. Considering you can expect the average homeowner to live in an owner-occupied, single-family home about 13 years before moving. And a much shorter period of time for renters. The majority of both white and black residents who currently live in Homewood today. Didn't live there when you moved away back in 2001.

Secondly, what is more telling is the median income per capita in Homewood has increased basically on par with other desirable suburbs during that same time period. In 2000, median income per capita in Homewood was $26,074. And as of 2013 is at $31,712. Tinley Park for example had a median income per capita of $25,207 in 2000. And as of 2013 has a median income per capita of $33,459. Tinley has gone up slightly more than homewood over this period of time. But hardly the gloomy picture in homewood that some try to paint.


I know in previous post you mentioned that you moved from Homewood to Valparaiso. I think what's very interesting to note. Is if you compare demographics beyond race. The demographics change in Homewood since the time period you moved shows more upwardly mobile economic growth. Than Valpo, the town you ended up moving to. In 2000, median income per capita in Valparaiso was $22,509. In 2013, median income per capita in Valpo is at $24,239. Socioeconomic growth in Valpo appears to have staggered in comparison to the economic demographics of current residents living in Homewood. Which is something that just looking at changing racial demographics wouldn't convey.

[Chuckity]

Hi Alan.

[scotty40]

Originally Posted by Chuckity

I'm white and I moved from Homewood in 2001. And several friends & family who lived in HF moved out around the same time.

It wasn't changing demographics which caused the move for us - though demographics did change substantially from white to black when you compare 2000 to 2010. And though I obviously don't and can't speak for every white person that moved, I can speak for myself and several people who sold at that time.

The major reason for the move was the schools - Homewood was changing from neighborhood schools to grade centers. Which in hindsight, I think everyone would agree that it wasn't a great idea because that's when school scores/ratings started to slip.

Although you didn't move because of the demographic change, you'll have to admit that the change was great at flushing people out who originally moved to Homewood to get away from that very thing. Homewood was as much of a destination for NIMBY's as Mokena, Frankfort, Orland and NWI is today. And, it should be noted that the "Homewood is changing", sky is falling theme has been passed around since the early/mid 80's when the first upwardly mobile AA familes arrived.

The economics of the situation are important. Income and education are largely what drives the overall vibe of an area. The area continues to excel in that arena.

[leroy217]

Everyone says that the schools aren't what they used to be....well what is the reason for the "decline"? Is it that people see school rating gsn synonymous with a change in demographics? Or is it corruption?

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by leroy217

Everyone says that the schools aren't what they used to be....well what is the reason for the "decline"? Is it that people see school rating gsn synonymous with a change in demographics? Or is it corruption?

A good friend recently retired from a position at HF. The cited several factors for decline. Some of the factors are thinks related to demographics - as wide as fewer families with ties to UofC to more folks unable to afford nicer enriching vacations.

The shift in the faculty is an issue. Better prepared teachers almost certainly are more attracted even to magnet schools inside CPS, easier commute, more hip, better name recognition...

Administrators get worn out too. BOE shifts. Little changed add up...