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I'm not trying to get on your case, I was just curious.
Anway, I wouldn't rule out CC Hills. It really isn't that bad of an area. It's in a good location right off of the 57 and 80 with a growing shopping district and some entertainment. You will definately get a lot of bang for your buck especially if you by a home west of Cicero (since they're bigger).
It eets a bad rep b/c of the schools and high taxes. The schools are not anything like CPS, but they are very sub par for suburban standards. However, if you desire to move here, you can send you kids to private school. Or you can move west of Cicero and north of 183rd st and send your kids to Tinley Park school district.
The think the taxes will iron itself out once more businesses start moving in and the big retailers tax "exemptions" end. Olympia Fields taxes are much higher and the houses cost way more and most kids go to the same high school as half of CC Hills' kids.
CC Hills could use some improvement, but I feel that this community is more on the up and up than downhill. I'm pretty sure many people on this site wil disagree, but someone has to be optimistic.
Lansing isn't bad either. It's definately a cheaper option. Lynwood is coming up too. You would be close to major roads and expressways, loads of shopping around River Oaks and in Indiana.
However, from reading responses, I think Homewood/Flossmoor or Frankfort are probably you best bet.
I love the test scores are "culturally" biased argument. It is not "ethnically" biased, so it is not the race but the culture that is leading to lower performing students. I will let others focus on the ethnographic forces.
Obviously, someone raised in ghetto culture in Englewood is going to have to try harder to get away from that culture than someone raised in Winnetka.
Change the ghetto culture and you will see test scores go up. Why is this culture so prevalent in black communities, even those with higher incomes? Priorities folks, priorities.
Please define Ghetto for me? What some people (white and black) consider ''ghetto" is actually based on their own perception and opinion that is usually based on cultural and/or personal biases. People like to throw that word around a lot, but their's no real meaning. At the end of the day, what's considered 'ghetto' comes down to what my opinion is vs yours.
Cornrolls and dreadlocks are a perfect example. People have taken a simple ethnic hairstyle that's been in the African American and Pan African communities for eons and demonized it by attributing it to gangsterism and ghettoism. I personally find nothing wrong with them except for the fact that other people have a serious problem with it. However, when Bo Derek wore them in the movie 10, it was considered a trendy and thing of beauty.
Black kids have been sagging their jeans since the 90's and it was considered ghetto then. Now that the white and asian kids are doing it, it's considered "trendy".
When a blacks turns a 1970 Impala into a thing of beauty, it's ghetto. When a whites do it, it's an antique. The fact of the matter is that most young people today are in some way, shape or form affected by so-called ghetto culture through the media, entertainment and arts. However, the perception is different when blacks embrace it verses when whites or even asians do.
This biase perception, hinders blacks--especially young blacks--ability to express themselves and think outside of the box in fear that they might be considered too ghetto, too lame or easy targets for the police.
When you say that the black community embraces "ghetto" culture, I wonder what you mean by that. Because honestly, I don't see it that way. Most middle-class blacks don't try to embrace "ghetto" culture; in fact, many try as much as possible dissasociate themselves from "ghetto" culture. Most middle-class Blacks exert a lot of energy (too much in fact) trying to convince people that they are not ghetto.
Please define Ghetto for me? What some people (white and black) consider ''ghetto" is actually based on their own perception and opinion that is usually based on cultural and/or personal biases. People like to throw that word around a lot, but their's no real meaning. At the end of the day, what's considered 'ghetto' comes down to what my opinion is vs yours.
Cornrolls and dreadlocks are a perfect example. People have taken a simple ethnic hairstyle that's been in the African American and Pan African communities for eons and demonized it by attributing it to gangsterism and ghettoism. I personally find nothing wrong with them except for the fact that other people have a serious problem with it. However, when Bo Derek wore them in the movie 10, it was considered a trendy and thing of beauty.
Black kids have been sagging their jeans since the 90's and it was considered ghetto then. Now that the white and asian kids are doing it, it's considered "trendy".
When a blacks turns a 1970 Impala into a thing of beauty, it's ghetto. When a whites do it, it's an antique. The fact of the matter is that most young people today are in some way, shape or form affected by so-called ghetto culture through the media, entertainment and arts. However, the perception is different when blacks embrace it verses when whites or even asians do.
This biase perception, hinders blacks--especially young blacks--ability to express themselves and think outside of the box in fear that they might be considered too ghetto, too lame or easy targets for the police.
When you say that the black community embraces "ghetto" culture, I wonder what you mean by that. Because honestly, I don't see it that way. Most middle-class blacks don't try to embrace "ghetto" culture; in fact, many try as much as possible dissasociate themselves from "ghetto" culture. Most middle-class Blacks exert a lot of energy (too much in fact) trying to convince people that they are not ghetto.
I hope this makes since
Regarding the area in bold red, I just want to add that it is also quite annoying that when one tries to dissociate from a "ghetto culture", they are seen as "acting white" or being "proper" (as if speaking proper English is a bad thing) and may also be seen as a "sell-out" if they start to associate more with non-ghetto people (Black, Asian, or White).
Regarding the area in bold red, I just want to add that it is also quite annoying that when one tries to dissociate from a "ghetto culture", they are seen as "acting white" or being "proper" (as if speaking proper English is a bad thing) and may also be seen as a "sell-out" if they start to associate more with non-ghetto people (Black, Asian, or White).
I disagree slightly. Most blacks know when to speak proper and when it's uncalled for to do so. Most blacks do what we call "code switching". IN other words, they speak one way with one person and another way with someone else. The majority of the code switching is done at work. I do it. When I'm talking to a client I speak "proper english"; when I'm talking to my co-workers, who are majority black, I speak more "relaxed english"; and when I'm mad, I might get a little ghetto. lol
Anyway, what you are saying has more to do with young blacks under 21. That probably has more to do with the lack of young whites in most black neighborhoods. Majority of Blacks students rarely see white students. Once they go to college or get into the work place, that normaly changes.
Also, there is a slight difference b/w talking proper and sounding white. The two don't always go hand in hand. I knew people who talked very proper, but you can still tell that they are black. Secondly, all whites don't speak proper english. There are some blacks who grow up with whites and they don't necessarily speak proper english, but don't have a black dialect either. For example, Cornell West and Bryant Gumble both speak very proper; but Gumble sounds more white, while West sounds more black.
I agree that my black co-workers "code switch" as you say. My admin speaks very differently to me than when she is on the phone or talking with the other admins (all happen to be black and not very uppity - I do work with several uppity blacks, but they are higher up the food chain).
I don't understand the whole code switching. Why would a person want to sound less intelligent than they are?
I honestly believe that half of the blacks that take the green line with me every morning from austin to garfield park are incapable of code switching and only know how to talk "ghetto" - mother f'er this, baby's momma, ax (not ask, kills me), etc.
I agree that white people talk improperly too. I grew up around borderline hillbillies in southern Indiana, some of whom did not have running water.
I don't see blacks talking properly as being "white", but being proper. You can still talk proper and definitely be known on the phone as black and educated.
Many of the educated blacks I work with hate ghetto culture more than I do as it reflects poorly on them, just as I despise redneck culture. To this day, I refuse to use the expressions "ya'll" or "ain't" in conversation and avoid speaking with any southern twang.
I agree that my black co-workers "code switch" as you say. My admin speaks very differently to me than when she is on the phone or talking with the other admins (all happen to be black and not very uppity - I do work with several uppity blacks, but they are higher up the food chain).
I don't understand the whole code switching. Why would a person want to sound less intelligent than they are?
I honestly believe that half of the blacks that take the green line with me every morning from austin to garfield park are incapable of code switching and only know how to talk "ghetto" - mother f'er this, baby's momma, ax (not ask, kills me), etc.
I agree that white people talk improperly too. I grew up around borderline hillbillies in southern Indiana, some of whom did not have running water.
I don't see blacks talking properly as being "white", but being proper. You can still talk proper and definitely be known on the phone as black and educated.
Many of the educated blacks I work with hate ghetto culture more than I do as it reflects poorly on them, just as I despise redneck culture. To this day, I refuse to use the expressions "ya'll" or "ain't" in conversation and avoid speaking with any southern twang.
Everyone code switches.
Who you are in the professional setting shouldn't be who you are when you aren't in the professional setting.
Who I am when I am at home isn't who I am when I am in a work setting. That's just life.
European/White Americans do this as well. My mother is extremely professional but she lets her hair down at home and yes her language does change even as a "white," woman she isn't running a muck trying to use words like due dillegence, accountablity, and dire. It's completely understanding. Who you are in the working realm most likely isn't who you are at home.
I'm biracial and I guess I'd be part of the "uppity," African Americans. But, it's alot of perception. I have had people constantly compliment me on how well I speak. I find it offensive.
I don't code switch, but maybe that is just me. People are always telling me to relax (including a Japanese customer). Yesterday, one of my bankers told me I looked like Dick Tracy because of my suit and serious demeanor.
I don't understand the whole code switching. Why would a person want to sound less intelligent than they are?..........
Many of the educated blacks I work with hate ghetto culture more than I do as it reflects poorly on them.............
I don't think that if a person uses baby's mama, ax, I be ...[present participle], mutha f 'er, N-word, b-word, finna, I'ma or any other so-called slang makes him/her a less intelligent person. I use those words and phrases a lot and I like to consider myself somewhat intelligent. The people on the Greenline are not considered 'ghetto' because they use those words. It's becuase they don't know when not to use those words (expecially the expletives). Plus, they don't know how to speak any other way and they're not trying to either.
What many educated folks don't understand is that not all Americans speak the King's English and not all of them have too. When I'm at work or around people I don't know, I change the way i normally speak. When I'm around family or friends, for the most part, I'm myself. When I'm trying to get a female's number, I speak differently. When it's my wife, I'm myself (unless I F'd up...lol). Not that I cheat or anything (lol). Anyway, I speak a certain way depending of the person I'm talking to. When I'm in public you might catch me saying 'baby's mama', but you would rarley here me say 'mutha f er'. I might slip up, but I do have good enough sense to apoligize.
Here's the deal. Jamaicans speak Patois (Broken English) when they talk amongst theirselves and English when talk to everyone else. They way I see it, blacks shouldn't have a problem with speaking "Ebonics" amongst theirselves (minus the curse words) and "proper English" to everyone else.
Your culture seems more to mirror the black admins ($50-70K people) I work with than the black executives ($200K+) I work with. The black executives I know, would never say baby's momma, "ax" or mother f'er. They also tend to be part of nuclear families and are less prone to cheat as they have more to lose.
I was taught by my mother to speak and use proper grammar. The occasional typos I make here are mostly a function of using a blackberry with limited typing capabilities.
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I agree with Suburban Boy
