Hadiya Pendleton (Chicago: condo, crimes, homes)

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by chicagobear

The mayor and chief of police are in a tough spot, because if they start cracking down and putting more gangbangers in jail, someone in the black community claims it's a "war against black men."

If the police follow the law there won't be any complaints from anyone...

If the police think they can get away with stopping and frisking every Black male under age 25 they see, with no justification, that's a non-starter.
If the police think they can stop and search any car that contains young Black males, for no reason, that is also a non-starter.

If the police have no solutions to stopping crime, short of assuming that everyone is a criminal and treating them as such, then yes there will be outcries from those who try to defend the poor and underclass. If the police have no real solutions to stopping crime before it happens, and instead see their mission is to arrest criminals, then nothing will ever change. After all, a crime wave is good for the police, as it ensures their continued emplyment and upward mobility. A city without crime doesn't need as many cops...

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by oldhousegirl

Solution? How about this? All of the "bad" people who are killing innocent children/people (they all have horrible aim with the gun and always shoot the wrong person), those people should live somewhere else - away from the whole. The people who enable them, should live right alongside of them.

Alright, I'm obviously venting and know that can't happen and we DO have a place for the "bad", its called prison. But this is just ridiculous. The beauty, history, architecture, food, culture of my home city has been smeared by this horrible relentless violence.

Unfortunately, the "prison" solution only works AFTER the commission of a crime. I would prefer we stop the crimes BEFORE people get shot and killed. Tom Cruise/Minority Report, we really need you in Chicago.

[jonnynonos]

I recently read that citywide approval/favorability of the police department is actually now at a fairly impressive 70 percent. But I can't find the article.

[SmartGXL]

This is why, I say that we need to get help from the federal government on this. What do I mean? I mean NATIONAL GUARD/MILITARY help. We need armored trucks and troops with guns and body armor, permanently setting up shop in the drug areas, at intersections, and then re-position the Chicago police into areas such as the Northside. Doing so will cause the drug markets to dissolve, and for the gangs to disband, as they will not have the ability to coordinate and operate. Their mobility will be limited and they will collapse and dissolve. The troops' mission will be to carry out law enforcement duties. They will also need to coordinate with suburban law enforcement, as we all know that the gangs will try to flee to the burbs when the city is put under martial law.

[oldhousegirl]

Originally Posted by JacksonPanther

If the police follow the law there won't be any complaints from anyone...

If the police think they can get away with stopping and frisking every Black male under age 25 they see, with no justification, that's a non-starter.
If the police think they can stop and search any car that contains young Black males, for no reason, that is also a non-starter.

If the police have no solutions to stopping crime, short of assuming that everyone is a criminal and treating them as such, then yes there will be outcries from those who try to defend the poor and underclass. If the police have no real solutions to stopping crime before it happens, and instead see their mission is to arrest criminals, then nothing will ever change. After all, a crime wave is good for the police, as it ensures their continued emplyment and upward mobility. A city without crime doesn't need as many cops...

^Yep. I know nothing at all about policing or criminal justice save for episodes of "Cops" and "Lock-Up" type shows. How do you stop crime BEFORE it happens as you mentioned above??

[chet everett]

Once upon a time the city really did have good detectives that did do all the background work to , if not completely predict crime before it happened, at least have a handle on who the gang banging thugs were, where the real power minded drug lords were pressuring small dealers and when the conflicts were likely to spill over. There were some periods when the Federal Prosecutor & the FBI cooperated with CPD and Cook Co. State's Attorney but an awful lot the cooperation is hard to do when the corruption of the leaders of of City, County & State bring them underscrutiny / indictment / conviction...

Until Chicago voters get serious about not tolerating corruption / crime the prospects of preventive police action look rather slim...

I wonder how the Fitzgerald's replacement is going?

btw I doubt that Quinn would dare to use the National Guard for fear of openly mocking Rahm's inability to have effective law enforcement and there is NO WAY Obama would use federal forces to slap Rahm. Sadly that "we are all in the same party" mindset prevents what actually might be a way to things up from being a politcal possibility...

[SmartGXL]

I agree Chet, but if they do not take action, now, then the city is finished. It will quickly spiral down into Detroit. It is already getting a national reputation for high crime, and violence, not just in the "bad areas" but now in the "world class" sections of town as well. I am here in TX, and people are openly mocking Chicago, stating that they will not travel there for business, nor for vacations. It will start to suffer economically, as companies will refuse to relcoate there, and current residents flee to the suburbs (or other cities and states, like I did) just to have a safe place to live.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by chet everett

btw I doubt that Quinn would dare to use the National Guard for fear of openly mocking Rahm's inability to have effective law enforcement and there is NO WAY Obama would use federal forces to slap Rahm. Sadly that "we are all in the same party" mindset prevents what actually might be a way to things up from being a politcal possibility...

I completely disagree with using the National Guard, as they are not trained to be an occupying force. They are trained to be soldiers. Just having the NG in Chicago won't do much. I think what you're really proposing is Martial Law. No on out on the streets without a "reason." Show your "papers" when asked. A rigid curfew. Etc.

Again, this is a non-starter. No politician will admit to such a loss of control in their city/state as to allow the NG to come in.

I absolutely agree that the triumverate of Rahm/Quinn/Obama means that no one will do anything to embarrass the other. Obama will not even come to Chicago to speak out against violent crime in his hometown, so as not to embarrass his friend Rahm.

[JacksonPanther]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

I agree Chet, but if they do not take action, now, then the city is finished. It will quickly spiral down into Detroit. It is already getting a national reputation for high crime, and violence, not just in the "bad areas" but now in the "world class" sections of town as well. I am here in TX, and people are openly mocking Chicago, stating that they will not travel there for business, nor for vacations. It will start to suffer economically, as companies will refuse to relcoate there, and current residents flee to the suburbs (or other cities and states, like I did) just to have a safe place to live.

What's interesting is that the Chicago police forces knows this, and tries their best to mitigate the damage after these shootings. It's always the first thing out of their mouths - "This crime was drug and gang related." They think they are appeasing the masses by inferring "it's those people shooting each other again - you good folk don't need to worry."

Of course Pendleton's slaying doesn't fit that mantra at all, even though the police initially tried to say that some of her friends she was with were gang members. Well what do you know, NONE of them were...

She wasn't a "bad" kid.
She wasn't in a bad neighborhood.
She wasn't associating with criminals.

In other words, this killing can't be so easily shrugged off. Let's see if the police and politicians have an answer - my bet is they don't.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by SmartGXL

I am here in TX, and people are openly mocking Chicago, stating that they will not travel there for business, nor for vacations.

Then someone should point out to these intellectual giants that Dallas and Houston both have similar crime rates to Chicago.

It's not like conventioneers from out of state are getting mowed down when they leave McCormick Place for Pizzeria Uno.