Hadiya Pendleton (Chicago: school, college, income)

[jonnynonos]

The mob was absolutely running havoc until the feds got serious about destroying them. But once the FBI turned its eyes on them, and put the appropriate laws in place, it leveled them very quickly. I don't know why they can't come up with a similar law to RICO to apply to gangbangers. Or, rather, why they don't.

I would also advocate putting up, say, a 100 square mile barbed wire city in the middle of the desert of Arizona. This is the new prison you are going to if you are convicted of murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, etc. etc. etc. No parole. No visitors. No TV. Minimal healthcare, because those precious resources are going to vets, the elderly, etc. And here is what you get to do all day for the rest of your life: Hard labor from 5AM to 11PM, with every single dollar going to pay restitution to the victims' families.

[linicx]

Ever heard of Sheriff Joe and Maricopa County, AZ? He has one of those desert islands with tents, 5,000+ prisoners and the only accredited high school in America inside a prison. And he has a trained posse of 2500 volunteers to track, find and return escapees. Residents pay not one centavo for any volunteer service.

It is exactly what the little thugs in Chicago need. They will get a new work ethic, a new respect for authority, and a high school diploma before they are released. They will work from dawn to dark inside the camp with limited television, limited family visits, limited phone calls, no magazines, no coffee, no cigarettes, no frills, and no gang colors except pink. Most cry for mommy the first week or two. I love it. The kids get to muck stalls, spread clean straw, water and feed livestock. They eventually realize they are on the bottom of the food chain.

IL laws are too weak and prisoners are too spoiled. Your Chicago legislators are are gutless NIMBYS more interested in a social life than fixing the problems they created.

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

The mob was absolutely running havoc until the feds got serious about destroying them. But once the FBI turned its eyes on them, and put the appropriate laws in place, it leveled them very quickly. I don't know why they can't come up with a similar law to RICO to apply to gangbangers. Or, rather, why they don't.

I would also advocate putting up, say, a 100 square mile barbed wire city in the middle of the desert of Arizona. This is the new prison you are going to if you are convicted of murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, etc. etc. etc. No parole. No visitors. No TV. Minimal healthcare, because those precious resources are going to vets, the elderly, etc. And here is what you get to do all day for the rest of your life: Hard labor from 5AM to 11PM, with every single dollar going to pay restitution to the victims' families.

[linicx]

How can you be accused of racism when you are looking at felons, ciolent thugs, and law breakers? The fact the people who chose do these things are primarly dark skinned, does not make whitey the racist. It makes them look pretty darned ignrant of the law. It is not societies fault, or their parents fault if they can read a newspaper and figure out their brethern are dying and going to jail. Point to your NIMBY legislators.

Peoria rounded up 20 of the worst gangbangers, accused them of a federal crime and hauled them off to a federal facility to await trial. They won't be back for 20-30 years or longer. Longer is preferable. Another Peoria heor was caught in Will County and charged with a Chicago murder. It was a sanctioned hit.

If Peoria can do it so can Chicago. I hope.

Originally Posted by TBideon

Well, it depends if you're talking about the real world or an ideal world. In the real world, I, presuming I'm some influential political figure, would have very little recourse due to a combination of constitutional illegalities (i.e. calling in the National Guard or even the US military to south and westside hot zones) and the overly politically correct/overly sensitive/overly irrational nature of these communities i.e. anything I would do would be construed as racist.

In an ideal world, I suppose I would treat these urban terrorists as I would any Islamist cell, hate group, or treasonous organization. Stripping gangbangers of their US citizenship would be start; exporting them to a penal colony outside of US borders would be the next step.

Gangbangers and to a lesser degree wannabees are evil and destructive. Just imagine how much less crime there would be in this country if they were prohibited. And again I acknowledge this isn't realistic. In the US there is no greater fear than being branded a racist, and in doing so we refuse to make any pragmatic attempt at improving the lives of so many. In addition, for many there is no greater joy or comfort or satisfaction than calling others racist. So...basically we are one f'd up country.

[jonnynonos]

Interesting. I'll check that out. I agree that's just what we need.

We have an entire culture here of people who don't fear the law. Even if they don't consciously not fear it, they have learned not to fear it. The vast majority of human communication is nonverbal. They see their contemporaries behaving in a certain manner and absorb this information...

It wouldn't take much to change things. A few good lawyers to take on the ACLU and a citizenry that truly has had enough.

There is a biiiiig difference between being handled with the kid gloves and knowing that authorities mean business. I know... went to Catholic school, then public school... and adjusted my behavior accordingly. The priests were not messing around! You screw up, they would come down on you like a ton of bricks. You screw up again--have fun telling your parents you've been tossed out of school.

Then I transfered to public school and quickly realized I had up to 10 absences per quarter, in each class, that I did not even need to explain to anyone. Once you hit 11 you failed the class, but prior to that there were no reprucussions.

I think I took about 9 extra vacation days each quarter, and never had any ill affects.

Coming down hard on this behavior would save a lot of these people--victims and would-be perpetrators.

[Runuova]

Budget 5 million a year towards 500 unsolved murders. That should cover 500 deaths at 10k a piece. Ten grand would make their own Mama turn them.

[Attrill]

Originally Posted by Runuova

Budget 5 million a year towards 500 unsolved murders. That should cover 500 deaths at 10k a piece. Ten grand would make their own Mama turn them.

It seems like a good idea, but experience has shown that you'll get thousands of bogus leads. It becomes harder to wade through the false leads than it is to just do the basic detective work to begin with.

[MassVt]

If the Chicago Chamber of Commerce read this thread, they would be very, very concerned about any leakage..

[LeotheOrangeCat]

Originally Posted by jonnynonos

The mob was absolutely running havoc until the feds got serious about destroying them. But once the FBI turned its eyes on them, and put the appropriate laws in place, it leveled them very quickly. I don't know why they can't come up with a similar law to RICO to apply to gangbangers. Or, rather, why they don't.

I would also advocate putting up, say, a 100 square mile barbed wire city in the middle of the desert of Arizona. This is the new prison you are going to if you are convicted of murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to commit murder, etc. etc. etc. No parole. No visitors. No TV. Minimal healthcare, because those precious resources are going to vets, the elderly, etc. And here is what you get to do all day for the rest of your life: Hard labor from 5AM to 11PM, with every single dollar going to pay restitution to the victims' families.

The Feds took down the entire GD leadership in the 1990s. The next generation declined to step into leadership - they thought it would just make them a target for law enforcement. So now that gang is hundreds of separate sets (that often war with one another) that total about 30,000 people. The police can take down one or two sets at a time, but that doesn't even make a dent. Then before long new sets appear. That is just one gang. These gangs are much bigger than the mob ever was.

[chet everett]

...more "membership" but less heirarchy. That lack of heirarchy also means less effective, more randomn violence, less efficient at funneling money up the chain, less able to be a "full time thing" for most "members".

Not saying I would prefer something with the whole cosa nostra rigidness but the trade off is that families that grew acustomed to a certain level of affluence eventually saw the value in going legit. Punks that use the cash from banging merely to supplement momma's free WIC meals and a phone paid for through the genius motivations of Washington bueracratic initiatives are unlikely to wonder about raising their kids to go to leafy college campuses...

Originally Posted by LeotheOrangeCat

The Feds took down the entire GD leadership in the 1990s. The next generation declined to step into leadership - they thought it would just make them a target for law enforcement. So now that gang is hundreds of separate sets (that often war with one another) that total about 30,000 people. The police can take down one or two sets at a time, but that doesn't even make a dent. Then before long new sets appear. That is just one gang. These gangs are much bigger than the mob ever was.

[Chi-town Native]

Originally Posted by LeotheOrangeCat

The Feds took down the entire GD leadership in the 1990s. The next generation declined to step into leadership - they thought it would just make them a target for law enforcement. So now that gang is hundreds of separate sets (that often war with one another) that total about 30,000 people. The police can take down one or two sets at a time, but that doesn't even make a dent. Then before long new sets appear. That is just one gang. These gangs are much bigger than the mob ever was.

Bigger, but exponentially less sophisticated.

First things first, which is legalize and tax controlled substances so that revenue stream dries up.

Imagine what the streets and Outfit would have evolved into had Prohibition had continued another 50 years- that begins to give an idea of how entrenched gang culture is & why it is so resistant to change.