Illinois Link Card - Let's get real in here (Chicago: quality of life, military)

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by rvernsey

Ok, what are your top 3 public assistance programs that we don't provide?

Have you seen the conditions that the poor in our country live in? It's abysmal by first world standards, let alone by richest-nation-in-the-world standards. I'm not saying we don't have any public assistance programs whatsoever, I'm saying we do not, in general, "take care of" anyone very well in this country, other than the rich.

We sure as hell don't tell poor people to do nothing and be taken care of. We tell them to pull themselves up by their non-existent bootstraps, and we lie to them about how if we just keep channeling more wealth to the wealthy, it will eventually trickle down to them. Then we watch them suffer and yell at them for being lazy. We tell them it's all their fault, and that they are stealing from us and abusing the system. Sound familiar?

[rvernsey]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Have you seen the conditions that the poor in our country live in? It's abysmal by first world standards, let alone by richest-nation-in-the-world standards. I'm not saying we don't have any public assistance programs whatsoever, I'm saying we do not, in general, "take care of" anyone very well in this country, other than the rich.

We sure as hell don't tell poor people to do nothing and be taken care of. We tell them to pull themselves up by their non-existent bootstraps, and we lie to them about how if we just keep channeling more wealth to the wealthy, it will eventually trickle down to them. Then we watch them suffer and yell at them for being lazy. We tell them it's all their fault, and that they are stealing from us and abusing the system. Sound familiar?

So no solutions, okay. How do I sign up to get money channeled to me? That sounds like the government assistance program that I have been missing out on. You can't tell me that the lazy and abusive don't exist. Maybe if we could eliminate the lazy and the abusive, the dollars would go a lot further to *temporarily* help those who are really in need get it together. Can we not agree on that?

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by rvernsey

So no solutions, okay. How do I sign up to get money channeled to me? That sounds like the government assistance program that I have been missing out on.

Me too. Along with roughly 99% of us.

Originally Posted by rvernsey

You can't tell me that the lazy and abusive don't exist. Maybe if we could eliminate the lazy and the abusive, the dollars would go a lot further to *temporarily* help those who are really in need get it together. Can we not agree on that?

I didn't say the lazy and abusive don't exist. They do and always have. I just think they make up a far smaller percentage of welfare recipients than you do. No, I don't think they make up a significant enough portion that somehow weeding them out entirely (if we could even do that) would go very far in helping others. You sound like someone who fell for the Reagan "welfare queen" B.S. in the 80's and is still holding on to it. The vast majority of poor people want to work and earn a living, but far fewer are able to now in our current economic situation. Very, very few people want to spend their lives doing nothing so they can be handed just enough to almost get by, living in extreme squalor, while people like you blame them for everything. Seriously, who the hell do you think really wants that?

You're not being ripped off by the poor. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid that the wealthy are selling you.

[rvernsey]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Me too. Along with roughly 99% of us.

I didn't say the lazy and abusive don't exist. They do and always have. I just think they make up a far smaller percentage of welfare recipients than you do. No, I don't think they make up a significant enough portion that somehow weeding them out entirely (if we could even do that) would go very far in helping others. You sound like someone who fell for the Reagan "welfare queen" B.S. in the 80's and is still holding on to it. The vast majority of poor people want to work and earn a living, but far fewer are able to now in our current economic situation. Very, very few people want to spend their lives doing nothing so they can be handed just enough to almost get by, living in extreme squalor. Seriously, who the hell do you think really wants that?

You're not being ripped off by the poor. Stop drinking the Kool-Aid.

The lazy and the abusive probably make up a smaller percentage than what I think and a larger percentage than what you think. If they are buying unnecessary things with my money, then I disagree - it's no different than theft. I don't have a problem helping when the money is going to good use. I have witnessed first hand PLENTY of abuse of the system and it's disgusting and needs to be fixed. I lived in Florida for decades- it's unbelievable down there. People are proud to be on the system and do what they can to keep the money and or services rolling in.

[ChiNaan]

Originally Posted by rvernsey

The lazy and the abusive probably make up a smaller percentage than what I think and a larger percentage than what you think.

Ooh, balance fallacy. Fun! Sorry, the midway point between a truth and a falsehood is still a falsehood.

Argument to moderation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[rvernsey]

Originally Posted by ChiNaan

Ooh, balance fallacy. Fun! Sorry, the midway point between a truth and a falsehood is still a falsehood.

The exact percentage of the abusers of public assistance is obviously unknown, but if you want to go esoteric and argue argument semantics instead of talking facts, well, that's typical. I hold fast that you think it's lower than it is and I think it's higher, and it's somewhere in the middle (but closer to my estimation of course).

[urza216]

I've tried very hard to give a s*** about people who abuse public assistence. However, I just can't find the s***s that other people apparently give about it.

Where's this outrage about the TAX DOLLARS that are going to the drone program? Where was this tax dollar-related outrage when Bush declared war on Iraq? That war was pointless and a complete waste of money. No one seems to care about government spending until it comes time to talk about public assistance programs. And then all of sudden people get really passionate about where their tax dollars are going...

On City Data, there seems to be a lot of calls for a public security build up in Chicago. You know your tax dollars will paying for that, right?

I also question if it's even "abuse" at all. "Abuse" just seems to be a term for when people don't like how poor people are spending their money. "I can't believe someone with a LINK Card owns a big screen TV!! What an outrage!!" Where's this outrage about all the houses that middle and upper middle class people bought and couldn't afford - and thus leading to the recession?

[nearnorth]

Timely topic, since this article was just published yesterday.

The people who abuse the welfare system are not generally who rvernsey (and many others) thinks they are:

The Surprising Truth About Government Fraud - Eric Schnurer - The Atlantic

"Combatting fraud requires efforts and investments that target the real perpetrators, not cheap shots at beneficiaries and reflexive cuts in their programs. There are, after all, equal levels of fraud and theft in other fields, most notably finance -- but we don’t try to reduce it by shutting down the entire industry and blaming the customers."

[rubbersoul89]

the part i really don't get is when people who support policies that erode working class jobs then turn around and ***** about the reality of poverty and welfare in this country.

can't have it both ways.

[nearnorth]

Originally Posted by rubbersoul89

the part i really don't get is when people who support policies that erode working class jobs then turn around and ***** about the reality of poverty and welfare in this country.

can't have it both ways.

So true. It's maddening.