Chicago trains, why so narrow?

[dtcbnd03]

Originally Posted by Bitey

They seem narrower because of their seating configuration. The newest trains have the more conventional seating arrangement of long benches along the side walls facing inward, with a big aisle between them.

Despite seating configuration they are narrower than New York's subway. I always notice how much wider they are in NY when I go there. I mean you even have kids that perform dance routines in the NY subways cause they're so wide. You can't do that on Chicago's El.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

Despite seating configuration they are narrower than New York's subway. I always notice how much wider they are in NY when I go there. I mean you even have kids that perform dance routines in the NY subways cause they're so wide. You can't do that on Chicago's El.

I looked into this, and this is only half-true. Apparently the MTA lines designated with a letter use trains that are about 15 inches wider than the L cars, while those designated by a number use trains that are about 2 inches narrower.

[emathias]

Chicago trains are on the narrow side of average, but are nowhere near the narrowest rapid transit rail cars in active use, world-wide.

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

Yeah New York's subway is way wider regardless of seating configuration. It's a noticeable difference.

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

Despite seating configuration they are narrower than New York's subway. I always notice how much wider they are in NY when I go there. I mean you even have kids that perform dance routines in the NY subways cause they're so wide. You can't do that on Chicago's El.

Originally Posted by Bitey

I looked into this, and this is only half-true. Apparently the MTA lines designated with a letter use trains that are about 15 inches wider than the L cars, while those designated by a number use trains that are about 2 inches narrower.

Prior to the formation of the MTA, New York basically had three separate subway companies, with today there being two main divisions, A Division (former IRT) and B Division, with B Division being subdivided into B1 (former BMT) and B2 (former IND). So New York actually has two types of rolling stock, one for Division A, and the other for Division B.

Division B cars are wider than Chicago, with rolling stock measuring basically 10 feet wide.

A division rolling stock, at 8 feet, 9 inches, is even narrower than Chicago, where rolling stock is 9 feet, 4 inches wide at the window sills and 8 feet, 8 inches at the floor. They're narrow for mostly the same reasons Chicago's are narrower.

It wouldn't surprise me if Chicago ever decided to build a big, new lines that didn't require inter-operation with existing infrastructure, if the CTA chose to go with wider rolling stock, more like B Division, but probably not as wide as BART, which is so wide the tracks aren't even standard gauge - they use Indian gauge, which is 9 1/2 inches wider than standard gauge enabling cars that are 10', 6" wide - and São Paulo uses the same system.

Paris Metro rolling stock are either 7 feet, 10.5 inches, or 8 feet wide, depending on whether they're automated or manually driven.

Madrid is similar to New York, in that it has wide-profile and narrow-profile lines, with the wide cars being 9 feet, 2 inches wide, and the narrow cars being a very narrow 7 feet, 6.5 inches.

Elsewhere, Philly's subway cars most comparable to Chicago or New York are 9 feet, 11.5 inches wide. D.C. Metro's cars are just shy of 10 feet, 2 inches, wide. San Francisco's Muni Metro fleet ranges from 8 feet, 8 inches, and 9 feet wide. Los Angeles subway cars are 10 feet wide. In Boston, the Red Line is 10 feet wide, Orange and Blue Lines (and, incidentally, Cleveland's Red Line) are 9 foot, 3 inches wide. Buenos Aires subway cars are the same as Madrid's wide lines, 9 feet, 2 inches. Miami MetroRail trains are 10 feet wide. Berlin subway cars come in two sizes, 8 feet, 8 inches, or 7 feet, 6.5 inches wide. Montreal trains are 8 feet, 2.5 inches wide.

So, yeah, Chicago trains are somewhere in the middle, really.

[dtcbnd03]

Originally Posted by emathias

Paris Metro rolling stock are either 7 feet, 10.5 inches, or 8 feet wide, depending on whether they're automated or manually driven.

I love how Paris metro trains are continuous or open air from one car to the next. Makes them seem so much bigger on the inside. They're similar to how Chicago has the double length bus with an accordion in the middle.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by dtcbnd03

I love how Paris metro trains are continuous or open air from one car to the next. Makes them seem so much bigger on the inside. They're similar to how Chicago has the double length bus with an accordion in the middle.

I like that, too, and a lot of new subways are built that way (Paris' oldest lines aren't that way). The CTA basically says, though, that doing that with their current yards and repair shops would make maintenance to difficult, so for there to be any chance of that here, there'd probably have to be the development of a secondary system, where they could both use wider trainsets and use open-ended cars.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by emathias

I like that, too, and a lot of new subways are built that way (Paris' oldest lines aren't that way). The CTA basically says, though, that doing that with their current yards and repair shops would make maintenance to difficult, so for there to be any chance of that here, there'd probably have to be the development of a secondary system, where they could both use wider trainsets and use open-ended cars.

And it probably makes it harder to configure trains into different lengths.

[Minato ku]

Originally Posted by emathias

I like that, too, and a lot of new subways are built that way (Paris' oldest lines aren't that way). The CTA basically says, though, that doing that with their current yards and repair shops would make maintenance to difficult, so for there to be any chance of that here, there'd probably have to be the development of a secondary system, where they could both use wider trainsets and use open-ended cars.

Paris oldest line (line 1) has been automated since 2011 and its trains have open gangway.
It depends, not of the age of the line but the age of the trains. Trains in service since the 1990s.

[paytonc]

In the past, I've heard that CTA can't use open gangways due to the sharp curves in places like the corners of the Loop.

However, US transit agencies have used lots of anti-open-gangway excuses in the past:
https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...open-gangways/

[frimpter928]

Originally Posted by paytonc

In the past, I've heard that CTA can't use open gangways due to the sharp curves in places like the corners of the Loop.

However, US transit agencies have used lots of anti-open-gangway excuses in the past:
https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/...open-gangways/

I feel like they would make things feel safer on the trains. When I use transit systems where the cars all connected like that, I feel safer. So if there is a crazy person on the train causing problems, it easier to escape as you are less trapped and there are more people connected to you instead of just the travelers on your specific car. I like it a lot better TBH.