Chicago crime thread: Place all crime-related posts here (retired, rain)

[fusillirob1983]

Originally Posted by Kmanshouse

I've thought about this a lot and my wife is very pro-Johnson, as are her colleagues, and I've learned how they think about it.

They aren't anti-cop. They just don't think that approach by itself will work. It's like taking an Advil for your toothache. It'll stop the pain/symptom....but it doesn't stop the infection in your tooth. You need an antibiotic, which attacks the infection and the pain at the same time.

So their thinking is that cops need support, but we also need to address it in the community with leadership, jobs, etc. to work on the cause of the symptom. This of course, takes a lot of time and effort, and isn't guaranteed to work. IMO, it will take probably a full generation turnover to see change with this approach.

Conservatives just want it to go away. And using cops to deter behavior and prosecute is the quickest way to reduce the crime out there. It's also what's been done before, to varying degrees of success.

Younger people have a lot more time to be on this earth, and thus are more apt to support the longer term approach that progressives/Johnson are talking about. Older people who may just want to fix the next 5-10 years, or just get to retirement, or whatever, don't have the patience for that. They want a quick, decisive improvement now.

It's really not that hard to figure out people.

I've never been a progressive, and I voted for Vallas because I'm one of those people over 50 that likely won't be in Chicago 10 years from now, and won't reap any benefits from a longer play strategy.

But I do get WHY the progressives vote the way they do. And no, it's not because they want crime or hate the police (well, some extremists do). It's because they have more long-term hope still.

This is well thought out and was my thinking regarding why Vallas wasn't resonating with some people. That, perception of how he would deal with the schools, and the ambiguity of him being a Chicago resident.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by fusillirob1983

This is well thought out and was my thinking regarding why Vallas wasn't resonating with some people. That, perception of how he would deal with the schools, and the ambiguity of him being a Chicago resident.

The problem with this is, we have had massive social spending for decades. It has done nothing. Jail works as does the death penalty.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by BRU67

We can go back to the 1970s for movies showing top brass, parts of the public, and politicians not having the cops' backs. Check out Dirty Harry, 1971. The New Centurions, 1972. Those were over half a century ago. But if you watch those films, you will see and hear the same problems we are discussing right now being discussed back then.

Point - this is a longstanding issue. If you do homework, you understand that going in. The climate is not very good for police officers now, and that is sad. But it has always been difficult. It has seen ebbs and tides. We are in a tide.

And once again, if they feel they cannot do a dangerous job, it's better to leave imo. You are creating a lot of risk to yourself and others if you stay and don't do a job like that 100%.

There's a lot less personal and professional risk in parking under a tree and playing Apex Legends on your phone while you wait for a call than engaging in proactive policing.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Bitey

There's a lot less personal and professional risk in parking under a tree and playing Apex Legends on your phone while you wait for a call than engaging in proactive policing.

Well, to play devil's advocate, then you embolden criminals and then potentially create more dangerous situations for yourself to have to deal with later. So it's a complicated issue.

Some of the regulations on police are ridiculous. I was a very outspoken critic of the 2016 consent decree. But again, you take the job, you have to accept those things.

[norman_w]

I knew the computer hackers.

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The problem with this is, we have had massive social spending for decades. It has done nothing. Jail works as does the death penalty.

At least 11 billion annually. See #520 above. I am hoping that kmanshouse's wife and friends can set me straight on that issue. I think that's very important and always bothered me. And it simply was ignored by the media during the campaign. I mean, even if you took every single dime out of the police department budget and put it into social services, you would only be increasing spending by about 18%. What's that going to do?

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Well, to play devil's advocate, then you embolden criminals and then potentially create more dangerous situations for yourself to have to deal with later. So it's a complicated issue.

Some of the regulations on police are ridiculous. I was a very outspoken critic of the 2016 consent decree. But again, you take the job, you have to accept those things.

What I've been trying to tell you, and you don't seem to want to hear or at least acknowledge, is the way veterans in particular are "accepting those things" is to walk the path that is least likely to put them in no-win situations and most likely to see them out the other side with their limbs and their pensions intact. And you can't tell me with a straight face you wouldn't do exactly the same thing after you've put in nearly two decades of service.

As for everyone else, they're certainly taking you up on "accept it or don't take the job" as evidenced by the accelerated attrition rate combined with the CPD's well-publicized recruiting woes, for a job once considered desirable enough that the vast majority of applicants never even got to take the entrance exam, much less make it into the academy.

So you know what they're doing instead? They're taking you up on your other entreaty and going to Orlando and elsewhere.

Are you starting to see the bigger picture yet, or do you have another glib "take it or leave it" quip for the beat cops to chew on while the city disintegrates around you?

[BRU67]

Originally Posted by Bitey

What I've been trying to tell you, and you don't seem to want to hear or at least acknowledge, is the way veterans in particular are "accepting those things" is to walk the path that is least likely to put them in no-win situations and most likely to see them out the other side with their limbs and their pensions intact. And you can't tell me with a straight face you wouldn't do exactly the same thing after you've put in nearly two decades of service.

As for everyone else, they're certainly taking you up on "accept it or don't take the job" as evidenced by the accelerated attrition rate combined with the CPD's well-publicized recruiting woes, for a job once considered desirable enough that the vast majority of applicants never even got to take the entrance exam, much less make it into the academy.

So you know what they're doing instead? They're taking you up on your other entreaty and going to Orlando and elsewhere.

Are you starting to see the bigger picture yet, or do you have another glib "take it or leave it" quip for the beat cops to chew on while the city disintegrates around you?

Same answer. Take the 52K with no benefits in Orlando if you don't feel you can comply with the regulations of your department <shrug icon>

[quigboto]

Originally Posted by Bitey

Misdemeanor charges? JFC.

This is what your fellow residents voted for. This is what they want. When people tell you who they are and what they want, believe them.

If misdemeanor charges are the extent of it, I would agree that this is an egregious failure of the justice system. However, I have a hard time believing that there aren't more charges forthcoming in this case, (I have been unable to find any updated information about the investigation)
Just because they aren't filed as quickly as we would like does not mean those charges won't be filed.

[Bitey]

Originally Posted by BRU67

Same answer. Take the 52K with no benefits in Orlando if you don't feel you can comply with the regulations of your department <shrug icon>

^^ Well, there you have it. This is what you're up against, Chicagoans -- even non-Johnson voters who feel the problem is the beat cops responding rationally to the incentives laid at their feet, rather than the Catch-22 nature of the incentives they're responding to.

If you've heard what your fellow constituents have told you both in word and by ballot and you're still not willing to get out, you deserve whatever comes your way.