East Garfield Park: Is it Worth the Risk? (Chicago, Cicero: crimes, homes)

[xavier xerxes]

Also the area on Western and Harrison and so forth is an example of failed gentrification at this point. New condo buildings with low rent businesses in them, many covered in graffiti. Its like gentrification defeated, it definitely is atleast at a standstill at this point. Whoever lived there is mostly gone, like a modern white flight is what it looks like or maybe it never really filled up with people.

Now you have felony franks, yikes. Not good.
I think the area around United Center will really have to take off before the affluence at all will successfully spread west.
Because most downtown streets fall off the cliff at ashland or ogden

[BRU67]

I think what we saw in EGP during 2005-08 was more speculation than any kind of natural gentrification. It's more like real estate speculators defeated, as my guess would be few, if any, actual "pioneers" bought into that. The area is just too dangerous from a crime rate perspective for any person used to a middle class or upper middle class area to feel remotely comfortable or even safe there.

For it to change, the United Center area is going to have to thrive and spread west as you say (which will probably eventually happen, albeit not quickly) or the City's going to have to do a hybrid version of what they did in the Cabrini Green area and pretty much boot everyone out.

[Cukes]

I recently started working at Norwegian American Hospital. Coming from the western suburbs, I take I-90 to Sacramento, down to Augusta. There are some areas of concern from I-90 to just north of Lake Street. Would I want to drive there at night? No. Do I walk in the area I drive, no. There are quite a few homeless people in the area, both young and old, male and female. A fair number of boarded up buildings, but also quite a few nice looking buildings. It seems to be a grocery desert, as well as for many services.

Attending college in the city, I traveled to and from many neighborhoods, north, south, east and west. Common sense should prevail. If you feel uncomfortable, then there probably is good reason. The violence is all over, both city and suburbs. Don't put yourself in a situation if it feels unsafe. Be aware of your surroundings, don't flash money, jewels, electronics. Common sense.

[urza216]

Originally Posted by Humboldt1

I looked at a place at 2510 W Washington, stone 3flat and did not get serious about buying it due to structural issues. That area is rough and may be okay in 10 years once the lofts are fully developed but it is not an area I would live in and I live in Humboldt Park, albeit the nicer northern part.

If you guys have good credit and interview well (look like well dressed yuppies) you should be able to negotiate a low rent in better areas.

As a landlord, I would certainly rent to a yuppie couple for $100 less than to some people I have rented just because I would expect fewer issues.

If a yuppie has cheaper rent than other people in the same neighborhood, are they still a yuppie? And actually, wait, hold on a second. There are YUPPIES in East Garfield Park?

I don't think Humboldt1 is ever coming back to this forum.. But someone else resurrected this thread and I just thought I'd say something about this.

[Drover]

Believe it or not there is a small scouting party of yuppies camped out on the eastern edge of EGP.

[chet everett]

Originally Posted by Drover

Believe it or not there is a small scouting party of yuppies camped out on the eastern edge of EGP.

... appropriate body armor / Kevlar helmet so that stray bullets do not present a problem -- Chicago Violence: 'Joyful' 11-Year-Old Girl Shot Dead; Rahm Visits Family - Garfield Park - DNAinfo.com Chicago

Wonder if the international coverage will force city officials to scale back tourism estimates -- Shamiya Adams killed by stray bullet among 2 dead and 20 shot in Chicago in 12 hours | Mail Online Those British tabloids sure know how to play these things up...

[emathias]

Originally Posted by chet everett

... appropriate body armor / Kevlar helmet so that stray bullets do not present a problem -- Chicago Violence: 'Joyful' 11-Year-Old Girl Shot Dead; Rahm Visits Family - Garfield Park - DNAinfo.com Chicago

Wonder if the international coverage will force city officials to scale back tourism estimates -- Shamiya Adams killed by stray bullet among 2 dead and 20 shot in Chicago in 12 hours | Mail Online Those British tabloids sure know how to play these things up...

Despite the fact the first article says the 11 year old and the 12 year old were shot in "East Garfield Park," the address given for the 11 year old is WEST of the Park, so by my understanding that puts that in the much more dangerous West Garfield Park community area, and the address given for the 12-year old is north of Franklin Blvd, which would put that incident in the Humbolt Park community area.

So, yeah, despite the press assigning murders incorrectly to East Garfield Park, it's measurably safer than West Garfield Park. I'm not saying it's safe, I'm just saying that it's not as bad as some press makes it out to be.

Thursday night I was riding my bike back downtown from Oak Park, and took Jackson all the way from Harlem Ave to Ogden (around Ashland Ave), including riding right through Garfield Park. There were a fair number of people on the street, and I didn't spend any time stopping to chat, but east of the Park is noticeably more stable than the west part.

If I were in the market for a 2- or 3-flat, or a SFH I would consider East Garfield Park as long as I didn't want to have kids old enough to play outside anytime in the next 10 years. The Park itself will probably act as a partial barrier allowing East Garfield Park to gentrify even as West Garfield Park lags. West Garfield Park has open-air drug markets. It's heroin markets are featured in the National Geographic channel's DRUGS series for heroin, and there is also a thriving xanax market that's described in a Chicago Reader feature last year. I give you references so you can see I'm not making it up, but I've also seen them first-hand and heard second-hand stories from people who are participants in those markets.

East Garfield Park is no Lincoln Park, or even Pilsen, but it does not have as much of a drug problem and now the the West Loop/West Gate is really hitting stride, the development pressures on East Garfield Park will push it into gentrification. If you look at the demographics from the last three censuses, the trends are very clear and while the financial crisis was a serious bump in the road, I think the demographic forces are strong enough that East Garfield Park is a good mid-to-long-term real estate play.

Demographically:

2010 Census:
AA population in East GP is 90%, it's 96% in West GP.

2000 Census:
AA population in East GP was 97%, and was 96% in West GP.

Regardless of what you think about the social justice aspects of gentrification, a move like that in demographic terms is very significant, especially after several decades in a row of stable racial demographics.

[chet everett]

I think I have stated before that the whole long unpleasant history of the way that the west side has left the area so "damaged" not just in terms of race but lack anything like the more traditonal mix of shops / resturants in places like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square or other disresble spots north / near to the lake.

In fact, even if one looks at the kinds of redevelopment that have happened in places like the South Loop / Printer's Row or River North the degree to which smarter plans have dealt with vacant lots / blighted former industrial sites has done much more to create an appropriate scale for residental developement and the kinds of business that both feed off them and encourage more development (kind of the way lichens are weird symbiotic colonies of both fungi and photosynthetic algae...).

It is much harder to envision that happening in / around either East or West Garfield Park ...

The various criminal elements that clearly have no regard for the most basic safety of normal people are sadly still largely harboured by the folks that live in these areas and I suspect that when Quinn again uses these thugs to get out the vote it will only cement the fate of both the primacy of violent thugs and corrupt polticians that are complicit in letting them run wild.

[Drover]

I really hate to even give an appearance to be siding with one of chet's tedious "Chicago sucks unconditionally" threads, but more people were shot in EGP last year than WGP. For what it's worth, WGP seems to be making up the difference this year. EGP may be "a good mid-to-long-term real estate play," but any way you slice it it's still a nasty place on balance for now with way too many serious violent crime incidents relative to its population. North Korea may be more stable than Sudan but still wouldn't want to live there.

[MassVt]

Originally Posted by Drover

I really hate to even give an appearance to be siding with one of chet's tedious "Chicago sucks unconditionally" threads, but more people were shot in EGP last year than WGP. For what it's worth, WGP seems to be making up the difference this year. EGP may be "a good mid-to-long-term real estate play," but any way you slice it it's still a nasty place on balance for now with way too many serious violent crime incidents relative to its population. North Korea may be more stable than Sudan but still wouldn't want to live there.

I'm getting the impression that Chet taught biology back in the day, before he became the director of Suburban Chicago's Tourism division..