Lakeview/Lincoln Park good places to raise family? (co-op, neighborhood)

[reenz]

wow, i posted something but i guess it didn't go through... Thank you all for the great input! My main concern is that my sons (8th grade and 5th grade) are in a school that is safe. I know that all schools have their problems but I don't want my boys in a drug/gang infested, inner city type school. In terms of academics, so far they do well in different settings (public and private).. Are there any schools that they could get assigned to if we moved to the Lake view, LP or Uptown areas that we should avoid at all costs?

Note: My wife and I are still in our mid 30's so we still live a relatively active life (restaurants, gym, occassional night out) so the ability to walk to some of these types of places would be a plus.

[mr aztec]

I would recommend fitting the cost of private school in your budget or rent knowing you can move if its not working out.

[Lookout Kid]

There are some decent CPS neighborhood school options in Lakeview and Lincoln Park (and by "neighborhood school", I mean a school that serves a specific attendance boundary instead of relying on an admissions process-i.e. your kid gets in if you live within the boundary). Lincoln, Burley, Nettlehorst, Bell and Blaine are a few K-8 schools that have test scores that rival suburban schools when you adjust for demographics (i.e. race and class). Or at least they are close. And on the far Northwest Side (which doesn't sound like what you are looking for), there are two really good CPS neighborhood K-8 schools in the Norwood Park neighborhood.

[Brisklaw]

Originally Posted by Lookout Kid

Lincoln, Burley, Nettlehorst, Bell and Blaine are a few K-8 schools that have test scores that rival suburban schools when you adjust for demographics.

Interesting comment there (when you adjust.....) If one adjusts for demographics then the USA still competes with Europe and Japan in math and science. That means, that if you leave out the CPS from the stats, IL isn't doing that bad. If you leave out Mississippi and New Mexico and inner cities, then the US stats aren't so bad etc.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by Brisklaw

Interesting comment there (when you adjust.....) If one adjusts for demographics then the USA still competes with Europe and Japan in math and science. That means, that if you leave out the CPS from the stats, IL isn't doing that bad. If you leave out Mississippi and New Mexico and inner cities, then the US stats aren't so bad etc.

It's not the most sensitive comment on my part, but if you want to find out how your kid will do in a given school, it makes sense to look at how other kids do who are in a similar situation. Often times the average test scores tell you more about the demographics of a school than the quality of instruction. It has been pretty well documented that students from poor, uneducated families do poorly in school themselves.

[reenz]

I'm very interested in these 'neighborhood' schools. This would influence my decision on which neighborhood I would look into moving. As long as the schools aren't dangerous, I'm confident that my children could do well. They are currently in the Hawaii Public School system so I'm pretty sure that these schools will do the same or better in terms of academics.

[Lookout Kid]

^^Some are good, and some are terrible. You really have to pay close attention to the attendance boundaries. And note that the neighborhood elementaries only go through 8th Grade, so you'll have to apply to the good CPS selective enrollment high schools for 9th grade and up (Walter Payton, Whitney Young, North Side College Prep, Lane Tech, etc.). Or you can fork over the cash for private high schools... Or move to the burbs when your kids are that age.

[chet everett]

I hear where LK is coming from, but I'm also foursquare behind Brisklaw on this: it is unacceptable that so many kids do so poorly in so many schools.

I am not going to "pile on" CPS, but I really think that if one "does the math" for what it costs to live any sort of family sized residence in Lakeview or Lincoln Park you could live in a superior suburb for less. Will you be able to walk to some restaurants? CHECK Will you be able to quickly get to a gym or park? CHECK Will you be able to have an occasional night out? CHECK
Will you have your kids be in a school where pretty much the whole town is focused on success? CHECK

That last part is HUGE -- I mean it. Yesterday was the first day of school for my suburb. As I drove by I must have seen parents of every kids from k-5 all lined up and talking to each other. Most walked there, and I doubt any other than maybe the K's and 1st graders were required to be there. You cannot compare that to situation in schools, city or suburban, where the performance is not as strong...

Now, don't get me wrong, if some one iwas nquiring where the overall best value of housing was, with reasonably good schools, it would be impossible to have the very costly town that I live on the list, just as it would be ludicrous to suggest that housing values in Lincoln Park or Lakeview compare well with any other towns in the region...

As I recently brought up in another thread, with all the folks advocating for the wondrous things the City has to offer it more than a bit ironic that some kids that asked about "fun things to do if your are not 21" has so few decent responses. Now I, as a former CPS teacher, do know that once upon a time I could tell that kid to head down to the Chicago Academy of Science or the Museum of Science and Industry or the Art Institute or something, but now the CTA takes so long and the news makes it seem like a solid third or more of the City has an open season on kids and guns and even the Park District allows the Notebart Musuem to charge admission and despoil Lincoln Park with the name of an incompetent former ATT CEO and they're spending so little on even cutting the fields that maybe all the good reasons to be in the City are strictly for 20 somethings or kids rich enought to pay $15K a year to go to a private school...

And the truly odd thing is that if I were to throw a dart at the map of the whole region the number of towns that have the amenities for dining/entertainment/fitness that DO NOT ALSO HAVE some pretty darned impressive schools, where no "racial adjustment" is needed is pretty much NIL -- if you want a nice place to live, with good schools for your kids and things that will make your life more pleasant it ain't cheap. The more income / assets people have the more they tend to put toward their kids AND themselves these days. There just are not any places that have some paltry level of amenities where folks put up with for great schools (well maybe if you are a city work and you are chained to one of the expensive fringe areas...) and there are similarly not too many places that have the kinds of things that would appeal to the social desires of normal parents with crummy schools...

[Lookout Kid]

Well Chet, I'm just trying to answer the OP's question--since they did not ask about suburban schools. My wife and I have done a lot of research regarding raising our kids in the city, and initially it was our plan to do so. But we have now made the decision to move to the inner-ring suburbs for our children's schooling. Here is why:

1. The aforementioned "good" neighborhood schools are mainly in areas with very expensive real estate, and we need more space than we currently have. The exception is Norwood Park, but I see little advantage to moving there verses an inner ring suburb with superior ammenities. It's a good area for people that need to be in the city because of residency requirements, however.

2. Even if your neighborhood school is great, you could very well have issues again when your kids get to high school. For my criteria, there are no acceptable CPS high schools that aren't selective enrollment schools. My wife and I don't want to run the risk that our kids can't get into a decent high school. And we would like to put down some roots in a community, and don't want to be forced to leave because of the schooling situation.

3. We really don't want to mess around with CPS as an organization. I have very little faith in CPS management after talking to other parents, and feel that there is always risk involved in dealing with them. Policies could change quickly that would toss your precious neighborhood school into the giant stew of crappy CPS schools. Attendance boundaries could shift. Schools could close. Etc. etc. etc.

4. The prospect of paying for 13 years of private school for two kids, and THEN paying for college does not appeal to us. That's a s***load of cash. We pay property taxes, and would prefer that our property taxes go to schools that we can actually use.


If we had enough money to buy a rowhouse in Lincoln Park and send our kids to Francis Parker, we would seriously consider that option. But the "city lifestyle" that we love so much is not really available to our family in an affordable manner.

[Lookout Kid]

Originally Posted by chet everett

And the truly odd thing is that if I were to throw a dart at the map of the whole region the number of towns that have the amenities for dining/entertainment/fitness that DO NOT ALSO HAVE some pretty darned impressive schools, where no "racial adjustment" is needed is pretty much NIL

I didn't bring up race, but I did mention poverty and family education levels. I suppose race can be inferred from this when talking about a city like Chicago, however. The racial "achievement gap" is a real problem in many area schools, and even African American kids from high-income educated families do worse (on average) than their white and Asian counterparts in schools like Oak Park River Forest. If I were an African American parent researching schools, I would pay close attention to "achievement gap" issues at any school I was interested in.