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1 The LORD spoke to Moses, 2 "Tell the Israelites: If Israelites or foreigners living among you give one of their children as a sacrifice to [the god] Molech, they must be put to death. The common people must stone them to death. 3I will condemn them and exclude them from the people. They gave one of their children to Molech, made my holy tent unclean, and dishonored my holy name. 4 If the common people ignore those who give their children to Molech and do not put them to death, 5I will condemn them and their families. I will exclude them from the people. I will exclude from the people everyone who chases after Molech as if he were a prostitute.
6"I will condemn people who turn to mediums and psychics and chase after them as though they were prostitutes. I will exclude them from the people. 7"Live holy lives. Be holy because I am the LORD your God. 8Obey my laws, and live by them. I am the LORD who sets you apart as holy...
22 "If you carefully obey all my laws and my rules, the land I am bringing you to live in will not vomit you out. 23 Never follow the practices of the people I am forcing out of your way. I cannot stand them because they did all these things. 24 I have told you that you will take their land. I will give it to you as your own. It is a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the LORD your God who separated you from other people. 26Be my holy people because I, the LORD, am holy. I have separated you from other people to be my very own.
Suppose I say to a wicked person, 'You wicked person, you will certainly die,' and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, and I will hold you responsible for his death. Ezekiel 33:8
Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don't warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths. Ezekiel 3:18
But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don't turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself. Ezekiel 3:19
"If righteous people turn from living the right way and do wrong, I will make them stumble, and they will die. If you don't warn them, they will die because of their sin, and the right things they did will not be remembered. I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:20
"But suppose a righteous person turns away from doing right and he does evil things. He does all the disgusting things that the wicked person did. Will he live? All the right things that he has done will not be remembered because of his unfaithfulness and because of his sin. He will die because of them." Ezekiel 3:24
"When a righteous person turns away from doing right and does evil things, he will die. He will die because of the evil things he has done." Ezekiel 18:26
...I will always warn until there's not a breath left in me...
In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Your sounding more an more like a pre vatican 2 catholic.
You sure your not reading from the baltimore catechism?
No brian,
Man's rebellion, his sin is now what "forced [mankind] to participate". To say otherwise is to blame God, and God will not tolerate that...read Job 38 - 41.
Hi twin.spin!
Long time no chat!
Anyway,
you were born into sin. Did you know that? You probably did, Christianity is good at letting you know that.
However, Jesus Christ died and rose, putting you into justification of LIFE! Praise God!
It's not about blame. I don't blame God, because I don't accuse Him of doing wrong.
I am putting responsibility where it should be. God is in control, not us.
Tell me, did you choose to be born? Did you choose to be born a sinner? An American? No.
Neither did I. But you and I have some things in common now.
1 The LORD spoke to Moses, 2 "Tell the Israelites: If Israelites or foreigners living among you give one of their children as a sacrifice to [the god] Molech, they must be put to death. The common people must stone them to death. 3I will condemn them and exclude them from the people. They gave one of their children to Molech, made my holy tent unclean, and dishonored my holy name. 4 If the common people ignore those who give their children to Molech and do not put them to death, 5I will condemn them and their families. I will exclude them from the people. I will exclude from the people everyone who chases after Molech as if he were a prostitute.
6"I will condemn people who turn to mediums and psychics and chase after them as though they were prostitutes. I will exclude them from the people. 7"Live holy lives. Be holy because I am the LORD your God. 8Obey my laws, and live by them. I am the LORD who sets you apart as holy...
22 "If you carefully obey all my laws and my rules, the land I am bringing you to live in will not vomit you out. 23 Never follow the practices of the people I am forcing out of your way. I cannot stand them because they did all these things. 24 I have told you that you will take their land. I will give it to you as your own. It is a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the LORD your God who separated you from other people. 26Be my holy people because I, the LORD, am holy. I have separated you from other people to be my very own.
Suppose I say to a wicked person, 'You wicked person, you will certainly die,' and you say nothing to warn him to change his ways. That wicked person will die because of his sin, and I will hold you responsible for his death. Ezekiel 33:8
Suppose I tell you that wicked people will surely die, but you don't warn them or speak out so that they can change their wicked ways in order to save their lives. Then these wicked people will die because of their sin, but I will hold you responsible for their deaths. Ezekiel 3:18
But suppose you warn the wicked people, and they don't turn from their wicked ways. Then they will die because of their sin, but you will save yourself. Ezekiel 3:19
"If righteous people turn from living the right way and do wrong, I will make them stumble, and they will die. If you don't warn them, they will die because of their sin, and the right things they did will not be remembered. I will hold you responsible for their deaths." Ezekiel 3:20
"But suppose a righteous person turns away from doing right and he does evil things. He does all the disgusting things that the wicked person did. Will he live? All the right things that he has done will not be remembered because of his unfaithfulness and because of his sin. He will die because of them." Ezekiel 3:24
"When a righteous person turns away from doing right and does evil things, he will die. He will die because of the evil things he has done." Ezekiel 18:26
...I will always warn until there's not a breath left in me...
In Christ's love...In His truth,
Verna.
Verna (and all Christians),
Please take note: God is speaking to the Israelites here, not to the heathen.
The Lord will Condemn and Exclude the disobedient from "the people"...... well thank goodness for that and it's nice to know that this Native American Heathen will be excluded from "your people"........ wouldn't want to be amongst a bunch of people I don't know....
I don't have your birth heritage, but I also don't want to be amongst a bunch of people I don't know..... so I exclude myself
Her accusers were in no position to judge her, as they were sinners themselves; that's why Jesus said "ye without sin cast the first stone". They were hypocrites. They wanted her put to death for her sin(s), which is according to the Law, yet they overlooked their own sins. The Law was just and holy and to be executed by righteous and holy people, not hypocrites.
Jesus offered mercy to the woman, and commanded her to sin no more. That's how it works for us today. Jesus will forgive us, but expects us to turn from sin; and that is true repentance.
Any gospel that does not include this kind of repentance it a lie. God demands that His people be holy and righteous.
Ephesians 4:24 - And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
If anyone could have condemned,judge, rebuked or any other thing resembling condemnation, Jesus could have done so , forget about her accusers , we are talking about Jesus , fundamentals judging others is par for the course .
If you read it , Jesus said neither do i condemn you before He said "go sin no more ".
It's not hard "God demonstrated His love while we yet sinners" , it does not say God condemned us because we were sinners , or God will not condemn us if we "go sin no more".
The OP is about condemnation . God is not a condemning God , i quoted two perfectly good examples that He is not .
Actually i like turning to Him much better than turning from sin , turning to Him is much more fruitful than trying to turn from sin (even the apostle Paul had a problem with that one) , but thanks be to God when He took His eyes of His own sinful nature and looked to Jesus , that sinful nature didn't seem to be the problem anymore . Can i get an Amen or a Gnash Gnash ?.
Anyway,
you were born into sin. Did you know that? You probably did, Christianity is good at letting you know that.
However, Jesus Christ died and rose, putting you into justification of LIFE! Praise God!
It's not about blame. I don't blame God, because I don't accuse Him of doing wrong.
I am putting responsibility where it should be. God is in control, not us.
Tell me, did you choose to be born? Did you choose to be born a sinner? An American? No.
Neither did I. But you and I have some things in common now.
Praise God!
Blessings to you,
brian
brian,
I agree that about decision theology
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway
" did you choose to be born? Did you choose to be born a sinner".
With that being said, scripture still teaches that humans are held accountable for choosing to rebel (Adam and Eve) and for rejecting Jesus. (John 3:36)
As Jesus said "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit"
I know logically it would sound like I'm splitting hairs but it is what it is...God gets the credit for faith, human gets the blame for rejecting. And rejecting the LORD does carry with it condemnation, a condemnation that is eternal.
Luke 12:47
"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows."
Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment......
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
With that being said, scripture still teaches that humans are held accountable for choosing to rebel (Adam and Eve) and for rejecting Jesus. (John 3:36)
As Jesus said "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit"
I know logically it would sound like I'm splitting hairs but it is what it is...God gets the credit for faith, human gets the blame for rejecting. And rejecting the LORD does carry with it condemnation, a condemnation that is eternal.
Luke 12:47
"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows."
Matthew 25:46
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment......
Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
Hi twin.spin,
Well, I agree that we didn't write the rules. However, just as everyone else here repeats how "God is holy" and "God is just", I'd like to say that I wholeheartedly agree, and that His "justice" will be forgiveness. There may be punishment, that we cannot know; but we do know that the fruit of the Spirit of God includes love. It does not include revenge, torment, anger, impatience or evil.
I believe that the "wrath" of God is not the "wrath" that man experiences. Heaping hot coals on someone's head sounds bad from our perspective, but from God's perspective, it means showering them with good.
Now THAT's a God I can believe in, and it is in complete harmony with the joy in the Holy Ghost that I have personally experienced. And I think others have experienced the same joy. No torment there. Not the kind that man is so familiar with.
If anyone could have condemned,judge, rebuked or any other thing resembling condemnation, Jesus could have done so...
Yes, Jesus was in the position to condemn her, but He came to save, not destroy; she was given another chance to turn things around, not to continue to sin. Jesus also told the man who He healed:
John 5:14 - ... Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
Actually i like turning to Him much better than turning from sin , turning to Him is much more fruitful than trying to turn from sin (even the apostle Paul had a problem with that one) , but thanks be to God when He took His eyes of His own sinful nature and looked to Jesus , that sinful nature didn't seem to be the problem anymore . Can i get an Amen or a Gnash Gnash ?.
Looking to Jesus, the Word, helps us to be victorious over sin. If we are sincere-hearted about being liberated from the burden of sin, Jesus will help us. If, however, we want to make excuses and give into the weakness of the flesh, then Jesus is not with us. Our father would be the devil.
Yes, Jesus was in the position to condemn her, but He came to save, not destroy; she was given another chance to turn things around, not to continue to sin. Jesus also told the man who He healed:
John 5:14 - ... Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
Looking to Jesus, the Word, helps us to be victorious over sin. If we are sincere-hearted about being liberated from the burden of sin, Jesus will help us. If, however, we want to make excuses and give into the weakness of the flesh, then Jesus is not with us. Our father would be the devil.
I really do not know why you are saying all this . We are not talking about becoming a christian , how to become a christian or what a person should be doing after they become a christian . We are talking about whether God is condemning or not . The rule of thumb to know this is by Jesus , He is the exact representation of God.
Let me tell you straight , Jesus did not come in the world to condemn it , there is no disputing it , He also proved this was His stance , He said "neither do i condemn you" to the woman caught in adultery before He said "go sin no more" to her.
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..... wouldn't want to be amongst a bunch of people I don't know....
