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The Church you want is not totally truly Catholic, but an invention of the Medieval time period.
Vatican II was an attempt to right the ship.
Ted,
I realise a lot of people feel like you do, but this does not make them correct no matter how sincere. As for me, I will stick with 2,000 years of tradition not the wishful thinking of a bunch of liberals who view the ecumenical councils as a Rorshach test and believe that "Truth" should be the product of a balloting of the laity.
I trust that Jesus Christ knew what he was doing when he handed the keys of the kingdom to PETER.
I truly wish people who think like you would leave and go start your own branch of protestantism.
I realise a lot of people feel like you do, but this does not make them correct no matter how sincere. As for me, I will stick with 2,000 years of tradition not the wishful thinking of a bunch of liberals who view the ecumenical councils as a Rorshach test and believe that "Truth" should be the product of a balloting of the laity.
I trust that Jesus Christ knew what he was doing when he handed the keys of the kingdom to PETER.
I truly wish people who think like you would leave and go start your own branch of protestantism.
Blessings
You can keep telling yourself that tradition has not changed in over 2,000 years, but that doen't make it so.
I guess if a lie is repeated often enough people will accept it as truth over time.
The Church you want is not totally truly Catholic, but an invention of the Medieval time period.
Vatican II was an attempt to right the ship.
I don't agree it was an "invention" but I do agree some things were done in the Medieval period that weren't strictly necessary and were sometimes a reaction to societal events. There's an element of Vatican II that was about looking through the tradition, and being continuous to it, without being so dependent on political reactions against the Reformation or French Revolution.
That said I don't think much to most of what you say fits that. I don't know of any indication that Catholicism pre-1054 accepted potions or sheaths, primitive condoms, to reduce fertility. (Closest things in the era to birth control) If you know of one I'd be willing to hear it. The local Synod of Elvira, in the fourth c., is positive on clerical celibacy and most things I know of pre-1054 indicate a preference for celibacy even though married men were allowed to become priests.
Even the electing of bishops I'm not sure was universal. Many other things "progressive Catholics" want have nothing to do with even pre-Nicene Christian tradition but are instead based on some idea of "our age" or "the people" and are therefore invalid. I don't think there's a pre-Lateran idea that "the people" can overthrow the Gospels and the early Councils altogether.
I don't agree it was an "invention" but I do agree some things were done in the Medieval period that weren't strictly necessary and were sometimes a reaction to societal events. There's an element of Vatican II that was about looking through the tradition, and being continuous to it, without being so dependent on political reactions against the Reformation or French Revolution.
That said I don't think much to most of what you say fits that. I don't know of any indication that Catholicism pre-1054 accepted potions or sheaths, primitive condoms, to reduce fertility. (Closest things in the era to birth control) If you know of one I'd be willing to hear it. The local Synod of Elvira, in the fourth c., is positive on clerical celibacy and most things I know of pre-1054 indicate a preference for celibacy even though married men were allowed to become priests.
Even the electing of bishops I'm not sure was universal. Many other things "progressive Catholics" want have nothing to do with even pre-Nicene Christian tradition but are instead based on some idea of "our age" or "the people" and are therefore invalid. I don't think there's a pre-Lateran idea that "the people" can overthrow the Gospels and the early Councils altogether.
Thanks for the history lesson, Thomas. You have thrown your erudition behind what I was trying to articulate but couldn't except in a very general way.
I can never keep all those popes straight let alone all those councils.
I guess you will have to avoid all churches, if you wish to keep kids safe from pedophiles! Maybe you best lock them up in their rooms until they are adults so you can keep them safe!
Who in their right mind would take their children to an organization that habitually and repeatedly protects the pedophile priests that are systemic within the church, transcending all levels of control, top to bottom.
Locally a music minister was arrested for pedophilia, and the priest then goes to the home of the music minister and attempts to delete kiddy porn off the pedophiles computer. Throughout the entire hierarchy it's cover up after cover up are constantly being exposed.
And the pope, also likely guilty of cover ups in the past, goes off on some stupid tangent about opposing condoms to prevent AIDS in Africa.
"I don't think there's much real evidence that Catholics as a whole really want what you want. They may not want what I want either, but I'm not necessarily arguing they do. Although I think the world's Catholics are probably closer to me than you, but I admit I'd need to know more about you to judge. (Internationally I think I could show that the world's Catholics wouldn't want women priests, same-sex marriage, and rejection of Papal Supremacy however I don't know if you want those either.)"
You got that right, Thomas!
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