What if G-d is not who we believers think? (churches, Messiah, Revelation)
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I am moving my answer to UrbanCharlotte here, because I got off topic in another thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
My reason for asking my question is because Jesus and God might not have been what many Christians believe them to have been. I am concerned that if the truth ever came out during my life time, Christians might go wild.
The idea makes me grin! But I don't think you have a lot to fear. I will admit, however, that in my lifetime, I have known thieves, a bank robber, adulterers, a murder, a man who called himself a "rabble-rouser" (whatever he, himself, meant by that), and quite a few more charlatains who stopped stealing, robbing, murdering, etc., when they became believers. I have also known liars, cheats, and more, and I hope they stopped these things when they became believers -- pretty sure they did. So if such decided that Messiah or G-d were not what they are, perhaps some might do what the Bible calls the sow returning to the mud and the dog to its vomit.
Myself? I love this way of life. But I have to be honest and write that I believe it is G-d who keeps me on the straight and narrow. If somehow, I decided to think that He is not what I have believed, then maybe I wouldn't pay a bill, maybe I would lie, maybe I would not return that library book, maybe I would not dress so modestly . . . I don't know. This is conjecture: I believe so deeply and would not "cast away my confidence." I am very convinced, even though some would try to shame us for being so.
I do have to say that I am not a "Christian," per se, but a believer in the Messiah without all the Christian stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
I should start a thread on this very topic, but I haven't figured out just how to word it. All I know is that there is a possible connection between all religions on Earth, human evolution, and the UFO phenomenon. I've researched these topics long and hard, and that is the conclusion I have reached. I also have reason to believe that 2012 is the year that the truth will come out. Check out this recent statement from the Vatican.
Back in the '60s and early '70s, we considered such concepts, amazed at the stuff of popular "news," authors, and evangelists mixed with the readings of Ezekiel, especially, but for myself, I eventually passed on from them. And I don't mean to demean anyone of the RCatholic persuasion, but if I am to be honest, I put no value on anything coming out of the vatican. I hope I am not offensive to anyone in saying this -- a forum is intended for opinions. But also, unfortunately, my computer at work has no sound. Sorry!
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Now, here is my question to you again (worded differently). If you ever found out that human looking ETs visiting Earth were the inspiration for a belief in God on Earth, could you still live a "Christian way of life"?
I am So Sorry, Charlotte! Since this cannot happen, I have no idea how to answer you! I believe in G-d. I believe in the Messiah sent of G-d. There was a time when I did not believe, but now I believe and have for 47 years. During that time, I have questioned Him, I have doubted, and one time 14 years ago, I screamed at Him to "Leave Me Alone!" but scriptural proofs always bring me back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
Keep in mind that the bible describes God as a lifeform (an eternal one at that); that created Earth (therefore, he is not from Earth); resides in the kindom of heaven (a place in the sky off of Earth, possibly space); created us in his likeness (he looks human like us), came to the prophets Ezekiel and Elijah in a mysterious flying "chariot of fire" (possibly a UFO), and everyone that obeys his wishes gets "ascended" into heaven to live with him (yet another possible reference to space).
I have no problem with most of this at all -- most of it is biblical -- but when it says that we are created in the image of G-d, as you mentioned, G-d is Spirit: He is without body (although in Hebrew it says that His nose gets hot in His anger, that He has allowed some to see His "back," that He has a "mighty arm," that He is a warrior). These are figurative, for human understanding, because we are limited to experience, and the experiences of others we know, for understanding. We are created in His spiritual image: humor, laughter, anger, sense of rightness, delight, judgment, love, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte
So I ask again, what would this do to Christianity if any of my claims are true? Could Christianity survive such a revelation? This is a "yes" or "no" question BTW.
I am trying to make it a yes or no answer, but first, I cannot answer for Christianity, especially not being a part of it. (What is it? In the '50s, it was actually believing in Messiah to the point of a changed life, being an American, being born into a family that attended church at least twice a year, having a name from the Bible or from those designated as saints by some Christians, etc. -- one or more of these ideas.
The title Christian has evolved through the years to include people who have a Bible on the shelf, people who sign an evangelist's card, people who "go forward" at a "crusade" (crusade -- a totally offensive concept). Churches like to announce with great pride that at their "revivals," "13,201 persons came forward," but the evidence has not followed, and if the churches are honest, they never see the faces of those 13,201 are never seen again. Some have gone so far as to interview those who "came forward" only to find no evidence of any difference in their lives. Contact with the Almighty is supposed to cause a change. It just isn't happening. So I doubt there would be any difference.
Second, I cannot answer for persons outside of myself: I have no control over them nor knowledge of their responses and reactions.
Last edited by VelcroQueen; 08-27-2010 at 02:02 PM..
I too am not to worried. God is who He is. No one can fully understand God, but we do have the Holy Spirit who speaks the Truth to His people.
With that said, being in relationship with God is a wonderful thing and He reminds me of His presence each day. Which is a major reason that I am not swayed by the "logic" and well crafted arguments of the skeptics. They might as well be telling me that I don't love my wife, because I can't prove it.
Anyway, I digress. regardless of the nature of God.....I am not concerned because of His work in me and others.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VelcroQueen
I am So Sorry, Charlotte! Since this cannot happen, I have no idea how to answer you! I believe in G-d. I believe in the Messiah sent of G-d. There was a time when I did not believe, but now I believe and have for 47 years. During that time, I have questioned Him, I have doubted, and one time 14 years ago, I screamed at Him to "Leave Me Alone!" but scriptural proofs always bring me back.
.
I am curious. You appear to be a Jew (the G-d is a clue) who believes in the Messiah. But you don't label yourself as Christian or Messianic/completed Jew. Why?
I am a genetic Jew, who accepted the Messiah and I call myself a Christian.
. . . I am curious. You appear to be a Jew (the G-d is a clue) who believes in the Messiah. But you don't label yourself as Christian or Messianic/completed Jew. Why?
I am a genetic Jew, who accepted the Messiah and I call myself a Christian.
As I wrote in the first post, "I do have to say that I am not a 'Christian,' per se, but a believer in the Messiah without all the Christian stuff."
And
Quote:
The title Christian has evolved through the years to include people who have a Bible on the shelf, people who sign an evangelist's card, people who "go forward" at a "crusade" (crusade -- a totally offensive concept). Churches like to announce with great pride that at their "revivals," "13,201 persons came forward," but the evidence has not followed, and if the churches are honest, they never see the faces of those 13,201 are never seen again. Some have gone so far as to interview those who "came forward" only to find no evidence of any difference in their lives. Contact with the Almighty is supposed to cause a change. It just isn't happening. So I doubt there would be any difference.
This is why I will not call myself a Christian, but I accept that others will call me that, because I believe in Messiah.
From childhood, I watched as "christian" evloved to mean less and less to those who use the term. "Christian" includes the evangelists who live in abject, unrepentant adultery. It includes child abusers. It includes those who merely go to church for the intertainment factor, which is an extremely broad segment of the churched persons.
It does, however, also include persons who take their lives in their own hands for simply owning a Bible, those who attend services secretly, those who reject murderous, threatening religions in order to serve the G-d they love. May G-d be praise for such!
But for myself, I value and practice little of the common church of today -- those that have been named (on my short time on City-Data) to the point of ad nauseum. -- You know what I mean, I think.
As I wrote in the first post, "I do have to say that I am not a 'Christian,' per se, but a believer in the Messiah without all the Christian stuff."
And
This is why I will not call myself a Christian, but I accept that others will call me that, because I believe in Messiah.
From childhood, I watched as "christian" evloved to mean less and less to those who use the term. "Christian" includes the evangelists who live in abject, unrepentant adultery. It includes child abusers. It includes those who merely go to church for the intertainment factor, which is an extremely broad segment of the churched persons.
It does, however, also include persons who take their lives in their own hands for simply owning a Bible, those who attend services secretly, those who reject murderous, threatening religions in order to serve the G-d they love. May G-d be praise for such!
But for myself, I value and practice little of the common church of today -- those that have been named (on my short time on City-Data) to the point of ad nauseum. -- You know what I mean, I think.
Works for me!
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But I don't think you have a lot to fear. I will admit, however, that in my lifetime, I have known thieves, a bank robber, adulterers, a murder, a man who called himself a "rabble-rouser" (whatever he, himself, meant by that), and quite a few more charlatains who stopped stealing, robbing, murdering, etc., when they became believers. I have also known liars, cheats, and more, and I hope they stopped these things when they became believers -- pretty sure they did. 
So if such decided that Messiah or G-d were not what they are, perhaps some might do what the Bible calls the sow returning to the mud and the dog to its vomit. 
-- You know what I mean, I think. 
