Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't recite mantras or keep repeating creeds to myself. I thought that was a Catholic thing.
Even better and more beautiful is the fact that Peter/Jesus retains authority over his movement, and over the keys to heaven, and over what is forbidden and permitted on earth and in heaven. Christians believe that Jesus is still around and in charge, regardless of what any Pope decrees.
The Catholic Church is but a brand, a phantom. Jesus/Peter came first, the gospels next, Pope Benedict last.
Jesus/God is the head of the Catholic Church. Always was and always will be. The Pope is the earthly head, a visible leader. Every organization has a leader if it wants to be successful. This applies particularly for an organization that spans the world and has over a billion members.
Oh and the Catholic Church is a brand, the original, Jesus created brand.
This Jesus/Peter thing is just pure horse pile. Did Jesus deny the existence of Jesus three times? Did Jesus rebuke himself after he fell back to earthly ways later in Matthew. Did Paul later rebuke Jesus when discussing what to do with the Gentiles? This theory that you subscribe to is complete lunacy and pure revisionist history and would relegate Jesus to having multi-personality disorder.
Here's another mantra for you. Jesus is Jesus, Peter is Peter. Keep saying it until it sticks.
The plain text?! Jesus did not speak plainly, but in 'parables' (Mark 4:34) and using 'figures of speech' (John 16:25). Or don't you believe what the gospels say here? Do you place any value on these written words of God?
There are scores of proofs in the gospels. Here is one:
The gospels state that the man who 'went out' carrying the cross was called both Jesus (John 19:17) and Simon (Matthew 27:32). I have noted this three times before on this forum, and not one person replied to it.
Many who call themselves Christians love 'turning around' so that they don't have to face what's written in their own Bibles.
I apologize for being off the topic, OP.
The Suffering and Glory of the Servant
13 See, my servant will act wisely ;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted. 14 Just as there were many who were appalled at him —
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness— 15 so will he sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand. I do not believe our Savior could physically carry his cross to Golgotha because of being so disfigured and his form marred. From the scriptures Jesus did not look human.
The angel had strengthened him beforehand on the Mount of Olives to prepare Jesus because he was anguished to the point of death even before He was arrested. Jesus was sweating blood before the arrest. Jesus truly knew to what extent His suffering would be. Praise your Holiness Jesus!
John 19:17 So the soldiers took charge of Jesus. 17Carrying his own cross, he went out to the place of the Skull (which in Aramaic is called Golgotha).
Matthew 27:32 As they were going out, they met a man from Cyrene, named Simon, and they forced him to carry the cross. 33They came to a place called Golgotha (which means The Place of the Skull).
Luke 23:26 26As they led him away,(Jesus) they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus.
Jesus/God is the head of the Catholic Church. Always was and always will be. The Pope is the earthly head, a visible leader.
If Jesus is the ultimate head, then he is within his rights to support Protestant denominations too, if they are doing good work.
You are like the disciples whom Jesus rebuked when they tried to stop people from doing good works in his name because they 'didn't belong to their group' (Mark 9:38-39).
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Did Jesus deny the existence of Jesus three times?
No, and nor did Peter. You people do love to change the words of the Bible, don't you? Peter didn't deny Jesus' existence; he denied that he knew or was with Jesus.
And yes, Jesus did deny himself - he said to his disciples 'if anyone wants to come with me, he must deny himself ... and follow me'. These were dangerous times for Christians, and the book The Judas Secret explains in some detail how and why Jesus denied that he was Jesus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Did Jesus rebuke himself after he fell back to earthly ways later in Matthew.
No, again you change the Bible - and you call me a 'revisionist'!
The gospel says that Peter 'wept bitterly'. And yes, of course Jesus might have wept bitterly. He wasn't too happy about having to 'deny himself'!
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Did Paul later rebuke Jesus when discussing what to do with the Gentiles?
Yes. Your implied suggestion that early Christian leaders would never disagree or argue with each other is naive. Of course they occasionally rebuked each other - Acts illustrates this perfectly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
This theory that you subscribe to is complete lunacy and pure revisionist history and would relegate Jesus to having multi-personality disorder.
God is a trinity of three persons. If you think this is a 'disorder', then perhaps Christianity isn't the faith for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by juj
Here's another mantra for you. Jesus is Jesus, Peter is Peter. Keep saying it until it sticks.
You try chanting this one - Simon is Simon, but that doesn't stop him being Peter; Saul is Saul, but that doesn't stop him being Paul; Peter is Peter, but that doesn't stop him being Jesus.
To understand the vital references to 'Petros', try reading the book, if only chapters 5 & 6. Or for support, the beginning of Matthew's gospel is probably a good place to start.
You may have misinterpreted my OP. When I mentioned Matrilineal descent through Peter...I meant from whatever tribe Peter was of...from thence would be the "rock" Petra.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Genesis 49:24 His bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)
John 4:5 Then cometh he to a city of Samaria, which is called Sychar, near to the parcel of ground that Jacob gave his son Joseph.
12 Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?
The woman is of Joseph's tribe through Manasseh.
13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again.
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water of life that I shall give him/her shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him/her shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come, And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Isaiah 55:1-13 Ho, everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.
Quote:
I would probably get excommunicated if not stoned (thank goodness it's an N/A) for even suggesting these within the patriarchal based culture, here goes...
Through Peter's matrilineal descent Petra...will the church be built...
and the trinity encompassing God "The SPIRIT", "The Son" (male), and The comforter (female) the completion of a FAMILY, after all...in Genesis 2:27 God said...
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
If Jesus is the ultimate head, then he is within his rights to support Protestant denominations too, if they are doing good work.
You are like the disciples whom Jesus rebuked when they tried to stop people from doing good works in his name because they 'didn't belong to their group' (Mark 9:38-39).
No, and nor did Peter. You people do love to change the words of the Bible, don't you? Peter didn't deny Jesus' existence; he denied that he knew or was with Jesus.
And yes, Jesus did deny himself - he said to his disciples 'if anyone wants to come with me, he must deny himself ... and follow me'. These were dangerous times for Christians, and the book The Judas Secret explains in some detail how and why Jesus denied that he was Jesus.
No, again you change the Bible - and you call me a 'revisionist'!
The gospel says that Peter 'wept bitterly'. And yes, of course Jesus might have wept bitterly. He wasn't too happy about having to 'deny himself'!
Yes. Your implied suggestion that early Christian leaders would never disagree or argue with each other is naive. Of course they occasionally rebuked each other - Acts illustrates this perfectly.
God is a trinity of three persons. If you think this is a 'disorder', then perhaps Christianity isn't the faith for you.
You try chanting this one - Simon is Simon, but that doesn't stop him being Peter; Saul is Saul, but that doesn't stop him being Paul; Peter is Peter, but that doesn't stop him being Jesus.
Ah, protestantism. A man, a bible, and an opinion.
I thought it was God, but never mind. I just wondered what the source of your information is when you say 'we have it on the Highest Authority that Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and Simon of Cyrene are not the same person', that's all.
...so what's your answer to our question: Who do you say raised Lazarus from the dead, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, or Simon son of Jonah ? and ...there can be only one, not both. The Blessings of The Eternal One keep you from being passive/aggressive...
If Jesus is the ultimate head, then he is within his rights to support Protestant denominations too, if they are doing good work.
You are like the disciples whom Jesus rebuked when they tried to stop people from doing good works in his name because they 'didn't belong to their group' (Mark 9:38-39).
No, and nor did Peter. You people do love to change the words of the Bible, don't you? Peter didn't deny Jesus' existence; he denied that he knew or was with Jesus.
And yes, Jesus did deny himself - he said to his disciples 'if anyone wants to come with me, he must deny himself ... and follow me'. These were dangerous times for Christians, and the book The Judas Secret explains in some detail how and why Jesus denied that he was Jesus.
No, again you change the Bible - and you call me a 'revisionist'!
The gospel says that Peter 'wept bitterly'. And yes, of course Jesus might have wept bitterly. He wasn't too happy about having to 'deny himself'!
Yes. Your implied suggestion that early Christian leaders would never disagree or argue with each other is naive. Of course they occasionally rebuked each other - Acts illustrates this perfectly.
God is a trinity of three persons. If you think this is a 'disorder', then perhaps Christianity isn't the faith for you.
You try chanting this one - Simon is Simon, but that doesn't stop him being Peter; Saul is Saul, but that doesn't stop him being Paul; Peter is Peter, but that doesn't stop him being Jesus.
Toni, this jokes for you:
I said 'Are you a Christian or a Jew?' He said 'Christian.' I said 'Me too!
Protestant or Catholic?' He said 'Protestant.' I said 'Me too!
What franchise?' He said 'Baptist.' I said 'Me too!
Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?' He said 'Northern Baptist.' I said 'Me too!
Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Reform Baptist?' He said 'Northern Conservative Baptist.' I said 'Me too!
Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?' He said 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist.' I said 'Me too!
Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?' He said 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region.' I said 'Me too!
Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region of 1850?' He said 'Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.'
This is what has happened in the Protestant world, because Protestants rejected the Pope and the Magisterium, the sole source of infallibility for the Church. Protestants take scripture as the sole rule of authority and consider it infallible – which it is – but scripture does not interpret itself, and in the absence of an authoritative, infallible interpreter, how can anyone know which interpretation is correct? Who has the power to decide?
No one does, so people disagree and divide, because there is no final, infallible interpreter in the Protestant world to interpret scripture and explain doctrine. In practice, Protestant “authority” and interpretation really is just private judgment, and people group together with those they agree with – and change and go to a different church if they disagree – which is anti-scriptural on so many levels.
So, you ask, what makes the Catholic Church different? Isn’t it just another man, or group of men, issuing their own private judgments, their own faulty opinions?
It is important to understand that we are not talking about the authority of a man, the Pope, to assert his opinions as true above the opinions of other men. The Pope is not really the one who decides matters of doctrine. It is God who decides, through the office of the Pope; God, not man, who is guiding the Church in unfolding and explaining the meaning of the deposit of faith. God is the interpreter of scripture and the One who settles matters of doctrine, and He does so infallibly through the Pope and the Magisterium of the Church.
People can make the mistake of thinking of the Pope as the “boss” of the Church, but he’s not. He and the Apostles, Bishops today, are not bosses; they are servants of God and stewards of His Church. God inspired Peter and the Apostles to write the New Testament, and He continues to guide and inspire them in correctly interpreting scripture in the Church through the Holy Spirit. It is God’s infallibility at work in the Church, not man's. The Church belongs to God, and He is the One running it, through the men He has chosen to serve Him as stewards – keeping it on track despite all the ways that men can stray in history.
Jesus never intended Christianity to become the rabbinical debating society with millions of mini-popes distorting truth and molesting the meaning of scripture for their own ends. The vacuum of authority created by the reformation has been annexed to spread sin, this is why abortion, genocide and all sorts of vice gained a beachhead in the protestant-secular world. Truth is drowned out in the sea of infinite opinions. It is only the true Church founded by Jesus that stands up for truth in a world filled with sin. Without clearly recognized truth there is no faith in Jesus. You can not tailor the truth to make faith acceptable to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Sherente
If a 'man' in a mitre can interpret the Holy Scriptures, then so can I.
I'm sure some of you will be pleased to hear that I hereby announce my complete retirement from City Data Forum and all further discussions about the Bible.
I'm sure some of you will be pleased to hear that I hereby announce my complete retirement from City Data Forum and all further discussions about the Bible.
Best wishes,
Toni
If it would matter at all to you . . . I would miss your presence and intellectual acumen. I hope you reconsider.
Be well,
Mystic
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The Invisible Church:
) for even suggesting these within the patriarchal based culture, here goes...
and 
