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Deuteronomy 32:3Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto ourGod. 4He is theRock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
Deuteronomy 32:15But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rockof his salvation.
Deuteronomy 32:18Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
1 Samuel 2:2There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
2 Samuel 22:3The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.
2 Samuel 22:32For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
2 Samuel 22:47The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and exalted be the God of the rock of my salvation.
2 Samuel 23:3The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God.
Psalm 18:2The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.
Psalm 18:31For who is God save the LORD? or who is a rock save our God?
Psalm 18:46The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
Psalm 42:9I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
Psalm 62:7In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
Psalm 78:35And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
Psalm 89:26He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.
Psalm 94:22But the LORD is my defence; and my God is the rock of my refuge.
Isaiah 17:10Because thou hast forgotten the God of thy salvation, and hast not been mindful of the rock of thy strength, therefore shalt thou plant pleasant plants, and shalt set it with strange slips:
So let us go over what had happened between Jesus and Peter.
Matthew 16: 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
It was upon what Peter had stated that Jesus was building His church upon that the gates of hell shall not prevail against, and Jesus has proven it already just upon His resurrection alone.
Revelation 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; andhave thekeysofhelland of death.
Remember: flesh and blood did not reveal what Peter had stated: so where did the credit of that revelation goes to? The Father in heaven.
So why would Peter be accreditted for anything to be called the Rock?
And for something that hell shall not prevail against, no sooner than said, Jesus had to rebuke Satan right out of Peter so obviously, Peter was not the Rock.
Matthew 16: 21From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. 22Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
One other point: would God share the glory of the title of "the Rock" with any other? No. He would not.
Isaiah 42:8I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give toanother, neither my praise to graven images.
Isaiah 48:11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Hosea 13:4Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
Romans 9:33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
1 Corinthians 10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rockwas Christ.
Enow,
i agree, I think Jesus saw the revelation of God in flesh starting to manifest itself in Peter, and not as Christendom teaches us, that one person is more important than the rest of us. Indeed, Peter can be of no help to any of us today, only the Anointing (Christ) in us can guide us.
Matthew 16: 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
1. This comment from Jesus was a pun, which associated Peter (Petros)
with the similar-sounding word 'rock' (Petra).
2. If you say the word 'this', it is generally meant to be understood in relation to the noun you have just spoken about (Peter), and not in relation to a verb (revealed) which is only referred to several nouns previously.
3. Why would Jesus have told Peter that he 'was Peter', if this bore no relation to what he was talking about (a rock)? Peter already knew that Jesus called him Peter, and surely didn't need reminding of this fact unless it was associated with what Jesus was talking about?
4. The name Peter has the meaning 'rock', and John 1:42 confirms that
Jesus actually called Peter by an Aramaic name 'Cephas', which means 'rock' or 'stone'.
The 'rock' was indeed Peter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
1 Corinthians 10:4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rockwas Christ.
Jesus is the Rock. Not Peter.
Corinthians tells us that Jesus was the rock. Jesus himself tells us that Peter was the rock. It is simple logic. If A=B and B=C, then A=C. Jesus was Peter. The gospels are riddled with scores of similar clues to the identity of Jesus with Peter (see the book 'The Judas Secret').
Amazingly, most Christians who find out about this remain in denial (see the thread 'Was Jesus Christ really Simon Peter?'). They prefer not to believe what the Bible tells them, and so ignore it.
1. This comment from Jesus was a pun, which associated Peter (Petros)
with the similar-sounding word 'rock' (Petra).
2. If you say the word 'this', it is generally meant to be understood in relation to the noun you have just spoken about (Peter), and not in relation to a verb (revealed) which is only referred to several nouns previously.
3. Why would Jesus have told Peter that he 'was Peter', if this bore no relation to what he was talking about (a rock)? Peter already knew that Jesus called him Peter, and surely didn't need reminding of this fact unless it was associated with what Jesus was talking about?
4. The name Peter has the meaning 'rock', and John 1:42 confirms that
Jesus actually called Peter by an Aramaic name 'Cephas', which means 'rock' or 'stone'.
The 'rock' was indeed Peter.
If so, then the gates of hell has prevailed against Peter because Jesus rebuked Satan right out of Peter a short time afterwards.
The fact is: the RCC is alluding that Peter was so named such and thus the church will be built upon him is a frabication of this credit because God the Father gave that revelation through Peter: Peter did not say this.
And Peter means stone, not rock.
If God throughout the entire OT is proclaimed as the Rock, and thus God, He will not share that glory with any other, especially since Peter was not the origin of this revelation, but God the Father was.
You can play with grammar all you want, but the meaning is clear. The question is... do you seek honour from men as in the RCC or do you seek honour that comes from God only?
By whom are you honouring in your posts? The Lord Jesus Christ or Peter?
Since the Vatican has been reported that satanism is being practised within, one has to doubt even further about Peter being meant as the rock wherein the gates of hell shall not prevail against.
Since Jesus holds the keys to hell and death, it is obvious that Jesus is the Rock by which the gates of hell has not prevailed for He is risen.
Quote:
Corinthians tells us that Jesus was the rock. Jesus himself tells us that Peter was the rock. It is simple logic. If A=B and B=C, then A=C. Jesus was Peter. The gospels are riddled with scores of similar clues to the identity of Jesus with Peter (see the book 'The Judas Secret').
Amazingly, most Christians who find out about this remain in denial (see the thread 'Was Jesus Christ really Simon Peter?'). They prefer not to believe what the Bible tells them, and so ignore it.
The definition of anti-christ means "instead of Christ". Most believers take it to mean "against Christ", but not so. Antichrists are that which leads away from personally relating to God through Jesus Christ since it is by the Son, we have access to the Father.
If anybody has any doubts as to Who is the Head of the Church:
Ephesians 5:23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Colossians 1:18And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Ephesians 1:21Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, 23Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
So just as Peter is not the Head of the Church nor the Rock: then neither is anyone else, but the Lord Jesus Christ.
If so, then the gates of hell has prevailed against Peter because Jesus rebuked Satan right out of Peter a short time afterwards.
Quite the opposite, thankfully. If Jesus was calling Peter (someone else) Satan, then in 'giving the keys of the kingdom of heaven' to Peter (Matthew 16:19), he would have been giving the keys of the kingdom of Heaven to Satan. I really do not believe that this was what Jesus was doing, do you?
No, Jesus was saying to Peter (himself) 'out of my sight, Satan!' because he felt Satan trying to tempt him, and was firmly rejecting these temptations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
The fact is: the RCC is alluding that Peter was so named such and thus the church will be built upon him is a frabication of this credit because God the Father gave that revelation through Peter: Peter did not say this.
I'm not interested in RCC v. Protestant disputes. I don't see what you mean by this - why Jesus claiming that God the Father gave a revelation to Peter (Jesus himself) makes anything a fabrication.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
And Peter means stone, not rock.
This isn't right. You yourself quoted Matthew 16:18 as saying 'upon this rock I will build my Church', and the word 'rock' here is a translation from the ancient Greek word 'petra'.
Besides, in the dictionary, 'rock' is defined as 'stone' and 'stone' as 'rock'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
If God throughout the entire OT is proclaimed as the Rock, and thus God, He will not share that glory with any other, especially since Peter was not the origin of this revelation, but God the Father was.
I believe that God will do whatever he wants to do, regardless of what anyone else thinks he will or will not do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
You can play with grammar all you want, but the meaning is clear.The question is... do you seek honour from men as in the RCC or do you seek honour that comes from God only?
I am simply reading what the Bible says using ordinary rules of grammar, and don't feel any need to twist the words around to make them fit any particular doctrine. I don't seek to achieve anything other than to understand what is being said - if you start 'seeking' a particular outcome, then your objectivity is compromised and you won't properly understand what you are reading.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
By whom are you honouring in your posts? The Lord Jesus Christ or Peter?
I don't understand what you are saying. If the 'Lord Jesus Christ' was Peter, how could I possibly 'honour' only one or other of them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
Since Jesus holds the keys to hell and death, it is obvious that Jesus is the Rock by which the gates of hell has not prevailed for He is risen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enow
So just as Peter is not the Head of the Church nor the Rock: then neither is anyone else, but the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, I've already said that Jesus was the Rock. It's just that this Jesus was also known as Peter.
It is important that people follow what the gospel says in this respect. If they don't, then they are missing out on half of the meaning of the gospel story. What a shame!
Revelation is the rock. Peter received his knowledge of who Jesus actually was through revelation from God. That is how Christ would continue to guide and direct His church after His death, resurrection and ascension into Heaven. The individual to whom He would speak would have to be sufficiently in tune with the Spirit to be able to receive revelation from Heaven and direct the Savior's Church in accordance with that revelation.
Previous posts have provided multiple pieces of Biblical evidence identifying 'the rock' as God, Jesus and Peter.
So why ignore this and say instead that 'revelation' is the rock, just because Jesus said 'Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it (that Jesus was the Messiah) unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven'?
You might as well say that 'blessing' must be the rock because Jesus said the word 'blessed'.
Why do so many people clutch at straws in a desperate attempt to find any alternative they can to avoid the obvious - that Jesus was identifying the person he was just talking about (Peter) as the rock (Petra)?
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