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Jesus will return exactly as described in the Scriptures. God has revealed in advance what is going to happen when Christ returns. You are free to disbelieve it as you have. The Jesus you claim to believe in is not the real Jesus - the Jesus Christ that is revealed in the word of God.
Jesus will establish His Millennial kingdom here on earth at His second Advent as the Scriptures state. And Revelation is quite literal. The descriptive language which is used in many passages describe things that are very real.
If you choose not to face reality now, you will have to face it later.
With the following statement which you made above, you have judged God.
''If ever God does any of the above that will mean He is unmerciful, unloving, unforgiving, unrighteous, uncaring, jealous, angry, prideful, and conditional''.
I said IF, not is. My God is all loving and merciful. He adores us.
Different variations of John 18:36 since I don't know which one you read:
Looks to me that Jesus is saying that His Kingdom is not here on earth but in the spirit world. You do believe the bible is the word of God, right? If so, then tell me how you would get Jesus' kingdom is in the spirit world in one book, then in Revelations it's here. You can't have both. It's either here, as in Revelations or it's in the spirit world, as in the book of John.
If it's one or the other, how can the book be the word of God if the book contradicts itself. God is not confusion because that would mean He has no idea even what He is doing and frankly, I don't want to follow a confusing God. You have at it though.
Looks to me that Jesus is saying that His Kingdom is not here on earth but in the spirit world. You do believe the bible is the word of God, right? If so, then tell me how you would get Jesus' kingdom is in the spirit world in one book, then in Revelations it's here. You can't have both. It's either here, as in Revelations or it's in the spirit world, as in the book of John.
If it's one or the other, how can the book be the word of God if the book contradicts itself. God is not confusion because that would mean He has no idea even what He is doing and frankly, I don't want to follow a confusing God. You have at it though.
This world is the devil's world. When Christ returns, He takes possession of it and will do all that the Scriptures have said He will do. Jesus will establish His kingdom when He returns. Not a difficult thing to comprehend. Reject this if you will. Here is what you reject.
From post #24.
Luke 17:34-37 is not the rapture. It is referring to the fact that when Christ returns to the earth at the end of the tribulation, some 7 years after the rapture has occurred, He is going to remove all unbelievers from the earth. This is the baptism of fire which was prophesied by John the baptist in Matthew 3:11-12, in which he speaks of the wheat (believers) being gathered into the barn, and the chaff (the unbeliever) being burned up with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 25:31-46 is the fulfillment of the prophecy. When Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation, one of the first orders of business will be to separate the unbeliever from the believer. Only tribulational believers who have survived to the end of the tribulation will go into the Millennial kingdom. All unbelievers who survived to the end of the tribulation will be removed from the earth and cast into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels as per Matthew 25:41,46.
Jesus will kill these unbelievers and their corpses will be left on the ground for the vultures as per Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:34-37 AND REVELATION 19:17,18., while their souls (the real person) will be cast into the eternal fire of Matthew 25:41.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12] And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself. 13] And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God. 14] And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15] And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16] And on His robe and on His thigh He has a nme written, ''KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.'' 17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, ''Come, assemble for the great supper of God; 18] In order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.
Matthew 24:27 'For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. 28] Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Zechariah 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
This is how Jesus will return and put an end to the tribulation and usher in His Millennial Kingdom.
At the rapture, all believers are taken off the earth into heaven, and unbelievers are left on the earth.
At the return of Christ at the end of the tribulation, it is the unbeliever who will be removed from the earth, (he - his soul will be cast into the eternal fire of Matthew 24:41, while his corpse will be left for the vultures), while the believer is left on the earth to go into the Millennial kingdom.
From post #26.
No believer will be left behind in the rapture. Only unbelievers will be left to go into the tribulation. When Christ returns at the end of the tribulation, only believers will be left on the earth to go into the Millennial kingdom. This is all Scriptural.
When Jesus came the first time, He came as the Lamb of God. He came as the suffering servant. His mission was to go to the Cross to die for the sins of the world so that those who receive Him as Savior could have eternal life.
But when He returns at the end of the Tribulation, He comes not as the Lamb of God, but as The Lion of Judah. When He returns He utterly destroys the armies of the antichrist who are attacking Jerusalem. Then He sets about establishing His Kingdom. And as already said, No unbeliever will go into that kingdom. Just as Jesus will have slain the armies who attack Jerusalem, He will convene judgment on the nations as per Matthew 25:41, and separate the sheep (believers) from the goats (unbelievers). The goats - the unbelieves will all be slain, their souls - the real person will be cast into the eternal fire, while their bodies will as mentioned in different passages, be left for the vultures. This will be the first order of business as the Lord establishes His kingdom on this earth. This will be a function of divine justice, divine judgment on all who have rejected Him.
Revelation 19:15 'And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16] And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name writen, ''KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.''
The first time Jesus came, He came to fulfill a specific purpose. The second time He comes, He comes to fulfill a different specific purpose.
People want the Lamb of God. But many reject the Lion of Judah.
It is of no importance to me whether you believe the word of God or not. That is between you and God. I have presented what the Scriptures say. Do with it what you will.
This world is the devil's world. When Christ returns, He takes possession of it and will do all that the Scriptures have said He will do. Jesus will establish His kingdom when He returns. Not a difficult thing to comprehend. Reject this if you will. Here is what you reject.
From post #24.
Luke 17:34-37 is not the rapture. It is referring to the fact that when Christ returns to the earth at the end of the tribulation, some 7 years after the rapture has occurred, He is going to remove all unbelievers from the earth. This is the baptism of fire which was prophesied by John the baptist in Matthew 3:11-12, in which he speaks of the wheat (believers) being gathered into the barn, and the chaff (the unbeliever) being burned up with unquenchable fire.
Matthew 25:31-46 is the fulfillment of the prophecy. When Christ returns at the end of the Tribulation, one of the first orders of business will be to separate the unbeliever from the believer. Only tribulational believers who have survived to the end of the tribulation will go into the Millennial kingdom. All unbelievers who survived to the end of the tribulation will be removed from the earth and cast into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels as per Matthew 25:41,46.
Jesus will kill these unbelievers and their corpses will be left on the ground for the vultures as per Matthew 24:28 and Luke 17:34-37 AND REVELATION 19:17,18., while their souls (the real person) will be cast into the eternal fire of Matthew 25:41.
Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened; and behold, a white horse, and He who sat upon it is called Faithful and True; and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12] And His eyes are a flame of fire, and upon His head are many diadems; and He has a name written upon Him which no one knows except Himself. 13] And He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood; and His name is called The Word of God. 14] And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses. 15] And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16] And on His robe and on His thigh He has a nme written, ''KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.'' 17] And I saw an angel standing in the sun and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, ''Come, assemble for the great supper of God; 18] In order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.
Matthew 24:27 'For just as the lightning comes from the east, and flashes even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. 28] Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.
Zechariah 14:4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
This is how Jesus will return and put an end to the tribulation and usher in His Millennial Kingdom.
At the rapture, all believers are taken off the earth into heaven, and unbelievers are left on the earth.
At the return of Christ at the end of the tribulation, it is the unbeliever who will be removed from the earth, (he - his soul will be cast into the eternal fire of Matthew 24:41, while his corpse will be left for the vultures), while the believer is left on the earth to go into the Millennial kingdom.
From post #26.
No believer will be left behind in the rapture. Only unbelievers will be left to go into the tribulation. When Christ returns at the end of the tribulation, only believers will be left on the earth to go into the Millennial kingdom. This is all Scriptural.
When Jesus came the first time, He came as the Lamb of God. He came as the suffering servant. His mission was to go to the Cross to die for the sins of the world so that those who receive Him as Savior could have eternal life.
But when He returns at the end of the Tribulation, He comes not as the Lamb of God, but as The Lion of Judah. When He returns He utterly destroys the armies of the antichrist who are attacking Jerusalem. Then He sets about establishing His Kingdom. And as already said, No unbeliever will go into that kingdom. Just as Jesus will have slain the armies who attack Jerusalem, He will convene judgment on the nations as per Matthew 25:41, and separate the sheep (believers) from the goats (unbelievers). The goats - the unbelieves will all be slain, their souls - the real person will be cast into the eternal fire, while their bodies will as mentioned in different passages, be left for the vultures. This will be the first order of business as the Lord establishes His kingdom on this earth. This will be a function of divine justice, divine judgment on all who have rejected Him.
Revelation 19:15 'And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations; and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty. 16] And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name writen, ''KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.''
The first time Jesus came, He came to fulfill a specific purpose. The second time He comes, He comes to fulfill a different specific purpose.
People want the Lamb of God. But many reject the Lion of Judah.
It is of no importance to me whether you believe the word of God or not. That is between you and God. I have presented what the Scriptures say. Do with it what you will.
Well I don't believe your interpretation because you make it sound like an evil God is going to destroy all those who disagree with your beliefs.
You still have not answered my question regarding John 18:36 and Revelation. How can the bible be so contradictory yet still remain "the word of God". John says Jesus' kingdom is not here on earth. I believe you have all that mixed up. There will be a new world but not in the way you are thinking. It will be a world where peace and harmony are the norm and there will be no war, famine, strife or hunger for Love. The world will be ruled by Love. In your interpretation, in order to come to that world, we must destroy all who disagree with your interpretation and kill. Sorry, God says "Thou shalt not kill". In order to come into a new world the right way, we have to work out our own issues, resolve the internal conflicts and learn to love each other. But, Jesus will not do it for us. We did it to oruselves so we must fix it ourselves. Sure, God and the angels will help but they won't do it for us.
Jesus would never ever ever destroy any of Gods creaton no matter what they have done. As a Son of God, we are not His to destroy. Only God can annhilate another soul. Since Jesus is not God, He cannot do that. What does your bible say about Jesus' attributes? He is loving, kind, merciful, forgiving and all that is good. How is killing good? Don't we already have human laws that say killing is wrong? What makes you think spiritual laws set by God are any different? Sorry, you are being misled when it comes to a loving and merciful God. The first (fundamentalists who have closed their hearts to Love and believe they are the only chosen ones) shall be last and the last (those who live their lives through Love and are merciful and forgiving to all) shall be first.
There will be another teacher who will teach us how to forgive. Jesus won't be here in His Morontia form until heaven is brought to earth in the hearts of mankind.
well can anyone answer me this??? or should I start a new thread??
how can end-timers believe that Jesus is going to cause collateral damage via a rapture of taking the believers out of the world in an instant,leaving behind chaos and destruction in His wake? (car,train wrecks and the like).
Is there not something that suggests it would be done in an orderly fashion (if at all....I mean quite frankly,I'd want time to pack,yanno?! Otherwise this would seem quite RUDE..)lol.
I don't care to hear the same old answers about how ppl have had to suffer before,so this is no different.It IS different.Jesus did not come the first time to cause destruction,why now??
anyone?
well can anyone answer me this??? or should I start a new thread??
how can end-timers believe that Jesus is going to cause collateral damage via a rapture of taking the believers out of the world in an instant,leaving behind chaos and destruction in His wake? (car,train wrecks and the like).
Is there not something that suggests it would be done in an orderly fashion (if at all....I mean quite frankly,I'd want time to pack,yanno?! Otherwise this would seem quite RUDE..)lol.
I don't care to hear the same old answers about how ppl have had to suffer before,so this is no different.It IS different.Jesus did not come the first time to cause destruction,why now??
anyone?
Because they're morbid individuals who have no thought for another? No love for each other so they associate that with Jesus?
Seriously though, good question as I'd like to know too.
Well I don't believe your interpretation because you make it sound like an evil God is going to destroy all those who disagree with your beliefs.
No, God is not evil. His judgments are in righteousness.
It is not a matter of interpretation. The Scriptures are quite clear. Concerning the judgment of the nations when the unbeliever is cast into the eternal fire, Matthew 25:41 says this. 'Then He (Jesus speaking of Himself) will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, acursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46] ''And these will go away into eternal puishment, but the righteous into eternal life.''
And with regard to their corpses, Revelation 19:17 says this: 'And I saw an angel standing in the sun and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, ''Come, assemble for the great supper of God; 18] In order that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great.
I didn't write the Scriptures. The Scriptures are God-breathed. This is divine revelation. You can accept it or reject it.
Quote:
You still have not answered my question regarding John 18:36 and Revelation.
Yes, I did. The world currently belongs to Satan. God turned the world over to Satan when Adam sinned. When Christ returns, the ownership of the world will go to Christ and He will establish His earthly Millennial kingdom upon it.
Everything in Revelation is real. Figurative lanquage is used to discribe those things which are real.
Quote:
How can the bible be so contradictory yet still remain "the word of God". John says Jesus' kingdom is not here on earth. I believe you have all that mixed up.
The Bible is not contradictory. God's plan is dispensational. When Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world, He had offered the kingdom to Israel. The Jews rejected Christ and rejected the kingdom. It was therefore postphoned until the second advent of Christ. The church-age is the mystery form of the kingdom, but the literal, physical kingdom of heaven will be established on the earth at the time of Christ's second advent.
Quote:
There will be a new world but not in the way you are thinking. It will be a world where peace and harmony are the norm and there will be no war, famine, strife or hunger for Love. The world will be ruled by Love. In your interpretation, in order to come to that world, we must destroy all who disagree with your interpretation and kill. Sorry, God says "Thou shalt not kill". In order to come into a new world the right way, we have to work out our own issues, resolve the internal conflicts and learn to love each other. But, Jesus will not do it for us. We did it to oruselves so we must fix it ourselves. Sure, God and the angels will help but they won't do it for us.
It is Christ who will cast all unbelievers off the earth as per Matthew 25:41. You have already been given the Scripture which declares that Jesus will indeed kill all unbelievers on the earth when He returns. Only believers will go into the Millennial kingdom. And though it will be a time of peace, mortal man will still have a sin nature, and there will still be those who rebel against Christ. He will destroy them as per Revelation 20:7-9.
The command is 'You will not murder' and refers to the crime of murder. It does not refer to killing in warfare, or in self-defense, or in capital punishment of the murderer.
Quote:
Jesus would never ever ever destroy any of Gods creaton no matter what they have done. As a Son of God, we are not His to destroy. Only God can annhilate another soul. Since Jesus is not God, He cannot do that. What does your bible say about Jesus' attributes? He is loving, kind, merciful, forgiving and all that is good. How is killing good? Don't we already have human laws that say killing is wrong? What makes you think spiritual laws set by God are any different? Sorry, you are being misled when it comes to a loving and merciful God. The first (fundamentalists who have closed their hearts to Love and believe they are the only chosen ones) shall be last and the last (those who live their lives through Love and are merciful and forgiving to all) shall be first.
Jesus Christ is God and it is His creation, and like all universalists, you just keep rejecting the fact that God judges the unbeliever with eternal separation from Him in the lake of fire.
You just said that Jesus Christ is not God. In saying that, you have shown that you do not believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible. One cannot have always denied the deity of Christ and have ever have been saved. It is therefore no wonder that you reject what the Scriptures say about the fact that Jesus will indeed cast all unbelievers off the earth when He returns at the end of the Tribulation. The Scriptures clearly show that He will establish His kingdom when He returns. You refuse to see this.
You try to mold God into your image of what He should be, instead of accepting what God has revealed about Himself in His word.
As I said, it is none of my concern what you believe. But it should be of importance to you. You need to come to a realization that Jesus Christ is God and that He came into the world to die for your sins. And that all sins have been judged and that only by believing in Him can you have eternal life. But you must believe in the real Jesus. Jesus Christ is undiminished deity and true humanity in one Person. He is the unique Person of the universe. If you deny His deity, then you have believed in another Jesus who cannot save you. You have not believed in the Jesus who died as a substitute for you.
well can anyone answer me this??? or should I start a new thread??
how can end-timers believe that Jesus is going to cause collateral damage via a rapture of taking the believers out of the world in an instant,leaving behind chaos and destruction in His wake? (car,train wrecks and the like).
Is there not something that suggests it would be done in an orderly fashion (if at all....I mean quite frankly,I'd want time to pack,yanno?! Otherwise this would seem quite RUDE..)lol.
I don't care to hear the same old answers about how ppl have had to suffer before,so this is no different.It IS different.Jesus did not come the first time to cause destruction,why now??
anyone?
This is why the rapture makes no sense to me anymore. I used to be like Mike and push the belief in a rapture but I just can't do that now. It defies all logic and there's no real proof in the Bible except for a few vague scriptures that elude to "something", but I doubt very seriously it will happen as rapture believers think it will, if at all. We can all rest assured that Jesus is coming back at least once, but not twice.
This is why the rapture makes no sense to me anymore. I used to be like Mike and push the belief in a rapture but I just can't do that now. It defies all logic and there's no real proof in the Bible except for a few vague scriptures that elude to "something", but I doubt very seriously it will happen as rapture believers think it will, if at all. We can all rest assured that Jesus is coming back at least once, but not twice.
Yep. According to the 'rapture', Jesus is coming 2 more times. First He comes and hovers a few hundred/thousand feet off the ground to get his church, then He leaves and comes back either 3 1/2 or 7 years later, depending upon what you believe, THEN He comes again and His feet split the mount of Olives in half.
Ilene, as you know, there are dark forces at work that don't want anybody to let go of this nonsense. (dark forces = ignorance and pride)
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My God is all loving and merciful. He adores us. 
