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There is no scripture that teaches someone can choose to accept or reject Christ "as their Savior." That is a manmade doctrine. What the bible teaches is that Christ is the Savior of the World.
John 3:36 ''He who believes in the Son (accepts Christ as his Savior) has eternal life, but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
John 3:16 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whosoever believes in Him (accepts or receives Jesus Christ as his Savior in contrast to those who do not) should not perish (apolētai - from apollumi - destroy. Not in the sense of cessation of existence, but in the sense of ruination, eternal uselessness in the lake of fire) but have eternal life.
Jesus is the Savior of the world in that He died for the sins of the world, removing sin as an issue in salvation. The issue in salvation is to receive Christ as Savior so that one is no longer under eternal condemnation.
John 3:18 ''He who believes in Him is not judged (condemned); he who does not believe has been judged (condemned) already; because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
The final sentencing of the unbeliever;
Revelation 20:11 'And I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12] And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne (all unbelievers in the history of the human race, whose souls which had been in Hades have rejoined their bodies which have been resurrected and are now standing before Jesus Christ and undergoing the formality of final judgment before being cast into the lake of fire forever and ever and ever), and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13] And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them, and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14] And death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15] And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The unbelievers sins will never be mentioned at the Great White Throne because Jesus already paid the penalty for those sins. Instead, the unbeliever is judged on the basis of his deeds. God's absolute righteousness cannot accept man's relative righteousness. When a person rejects Christ as Savior, he rejects the imputation of God's own perfect righteousness to him, and therefore must stand on his own rightousness - his deeds. And it is his deeds which are used as the basis for his final judgment.
That's right Mike, we all have a choice to make, accept Christ as Savior or reject Him. Scripture clearly teaches those who reject Him as Savior will spend eternity separated from Him, their choice.
Yes. And a persons eternal salvation depends on him understanding that he has a personal responsibility to make that choice. No one is automatically saved. Salvation is conditional. It is contingent upon faith in Christ.
Yes. And a persons eternal salvation depends on him understanding that he has a personal responsibility to make that choice. No one is automatically saved. Salvation is conditional. It is contingent upon faith in Christ.
Faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love, not faith.
A person's salvation (salve=healing for soul) depends on whether or not they KNOW God, who is love.
Yes. And a persons eternal salvation depends on him understanding that he has a personal responsibility to make that choice. No one is automatically saved. Salvation is conditional. It is contingent upon faith in Christ.
So let me get this straight. Only those that believe in Christ are saved.
That being said the world is populated by roughly 6 billion people and only 30% of them are Christian. Leaving more than 4 billion people "unsaved". How can anyone rationally believe this?
I will never understand religion.
'Perhaps no perfect way exists at all, just many different kinds.'
John 3:16 'For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whosoever believes in Him (accepts or receives Jesus Christ as his Savior in contrast to those who do not) should not perish (apolētai - from apollumi - destroy. Not in the sense of cessation of existence, but in the sense of ruination, eternal uselessness in the lake of fire) but have eternal life.
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Have you ever been apollumi, Mike? I've asked this before and you never answered, but you and I both know that you have indeed been apollumi.
God is the fire and all darkness that dwells in humanity will die.
Daniel 7:10. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
If apollumi or apollumi meant destruction according to the traditional definition by those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation, then Jesus is lost forever:http://www.tentmaker.org/FAQ/perish.htm
So let me get this straight. Only those that believe in Christ are saved.
That being said the world is populated by roughly 6 billion people and only 30% of them are Christian. Leaving more than 4 billion people "unsaved". How can anyone rationally believe this?
I will never understand religion.
'Perhaps no perfect way exists at all, just many different kinds.'
Guggenheim Grotto
We are saved when we learn how to love. God is love, and knowing God means learning how to love. All will be saved, because Jesus took on the sins of the world. It is up to us to learn what love is, and anybody who knows how to love even the worst among us is being made in the image of the father.
I believe that man without God ends up believing some pretty whacky things (as if Christianity isn't whacky). What I'm trying to say is, people were worshiping rocks and suns and animals and they were trying to figure out how they got here and where they were going. Pharaohs thought they were gods, and the pagans worshiped violent gods who always wanted sacrifices for the smallest things. They would burn their children to Moloch, violent and without love. It was a rather nasty time in B.C.
But, here come the Jews. They said there was one God who was sovereign over all and, and their prophets said we didn't need to worship a million different gods to keep them all happy so we could have crops and not get struck by lightening. Their God was different than the pagan gods around them. At least, he was supposed to be. What we have in the Old Testament is a group of people learning and struggling to understand love and sacrifice. But, they ended up doing a poor job, taking advantage of outsiders, charging interest, and manipulating the poor and weak among them with frightening tales.
So, here comes Jesus who came to show people love (his father) in action, and he did a whole lot of shouting and condemning of the religious of his time; the Pharisees. He was compassionate to those around him who were outcasts; drunk, prostitutes, tax collectors and so on. He said that nobody down here could ever reach the light on their own. Creation was made in futility and love was all that mattered in the end. He said to spread the Good News to ALL people. He said to tell everyone that death (our curse) has no sting and creation would one day be restored after all the fighting and darkness had been purged from among us.
Nobody has gotten it right. That's the way it was supposed to be. Not a single one of us will say we saved ourselves and not a single one of us will go wandering out into the dark ever again, after we get a glimpse of the light. I believe it's out there and I believe those who are learning how to love are becoming just like their father.
Faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love.
Thank you for your post. I appreciate your thoughtfulness in writing what is your truth, the way you present your experience and view of God's love. I will take it in as food for thought. Thanks for posting this in a way that is obviously with good intent, and making my inner skeptic stop and think.
If I'm a good person my whole life, I love and care for my wife and family, I teach my children to respect others and to do the right thing and I help those less fortunate than myself. Why then does God need me to believe in him to be saved? It seems wrong that a loving God would send a good soul to hell just for their disbelief.
And please no quotes from the Bible as a way to answer my question.
That's just the easy way out.
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Because good is never good enough. God has his own TOS (terms of salvation). Read God's TOS ..... John 3:16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom
Why is G-d always spoken about in the Christian view. There are other views of G-d.
That is simple. Because:
What do you expect .... this is a "Christian" forum
The true God ( not G-d) is the Christian God. Jesus is the promised Messiah that "the builders rejected" Psalm 118:22 which the prophets prophecied what God will do about Israel's rejection.
Psalm 81:11-12
"But my people would not listen to me; Israel would not submit to me. So I gave them over to their stubborn hearts to follow their own devices."
Ezekiel 3:7
"But the house of Israel is not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for the whole house of Israel is hardened and obstinate."
Zechariah 7:13
" 'When I called, they didnotlisten; so when they called, I wouldnotlisten,' says the LORD Almighty.
Have you ever been apollumi, Mike? I've asked this before and you never answered, but you and I both know that you have indeed been apollumi.
God is the fire and all darkness that dwells in humanity will die.
Daniel 7:10. A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.
If apollumi or apollumi meant destruction according to the traditional definition by those who believe in eternal torment or annihilation, then Jesus is lost forever:What Does it Mean to "Perish?"
Apollumi as applied to the unbeliever means to be in a state of utter ruin and uselessness, in torment in the lake of fire. And no, it does not mean that Jesus is lost forever.
Faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love, not faith.
A person's salvation (salve=healing for soul) depends on whether or not they KNOW God, who is love.
To the contrary. Eternal salvation is contingent upon one simple non-meritorious act of faith in Christ. No one loves God until they know Him. And knowing God comes only after learning about Him through studying the word of God. The unbeliever knows only what he has learned of the Gospel message. And it is a positive faith response to the Gospel message regarding Christ which results in eternal salvation.
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). What I'm trying to say is, people were worshiping rocks and suns and animals and they were trying to figure out how they got here and where they were going. Pharaohs thought they were gods, and the pagans worshiped violent gods who always wanted sacrifices for the smallest things. They would burn their children to Moloch, violent and without love. It was a rather nasty time in B.C.
