A question for those that believe (Gospel, Messiah, sin, Christ)
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If I'm a good person my whole life, I love and care for my wife and family, I teach my children to respect others and to do the right thing and I help those less fortunate than myself. Why then does God need me to believe in him to be saved? It seems wrong that a loving God would send a good soul to hell just for their disbelief.
And please no quotes from the Bible as a way to answer my question.
That's just the easy way out.
Hell is really the grave, and we all go there.
Jesus told one man to sell everything and give it to the poor, and he would be "saved." The question really is, what does saved mean? And, no you can't just believe if you try really hard. It doesn't work like that.
Faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love, not faith. But, if you believe in love (God), your soul will start to heal from the torment of wandering around in the desert like the Israelites. That's always nice.
Last edited by herefornow; 10-19-2010 at 07:44 PM..
If I'm a good person my whole life, I love and care for my wife and family, I teach my children to respect others and to do the right thing and I help those less fortunate than myself. Why then does God need me to believe in him to be saved? It seems wrong that a loving God would send a good soul to hell just for their disbelief.
Hello, Mike. First off, I don't believe God would send a good soul to hell; I don't believe He's planning on sending you to hell. On the other hand, regardless of how good you've been throughout your life, I'm sure you've done a few things you haven't been proud of. According to Christian belief, those things have made you unable to be reconciled to God. You can, must, and possibly already have, repented of your wrongdoings. Still, there must be a punishment attached to every misdead. I gather that you're a father yourself. As a father, you probably know that, "I'm sorry, daddy," is not always good enough. When your kids do something wrong, they need to be punished, even if they are sorry for what they did. The choice to disobey has consequences. It's as simple as that.
Well, Christians believe that even though God will allow no unworthy person to enter His presence, He has provided a way for someone else to pay the debt we are unable to pay for ourselves. His Only Begotten Son, who is infinite and perfect, offered up Himself as a sacrifice for our sins. To make it possible for us to be able to be forgiven for our sins without having to be punished, He took upon Himself the guilt we assumed when we sinned. He bore it all... the guilt and the punishment. He paid the debt we owed and made it possible for us to stand before God clean and pure. Of course, it is still our responsibility to repent of our sins, but we can avoid the punishment we are deserving of by recognizing that Jesus Christ is our Savior and allowing His sacrifice to atone for our sins.
(According to my Church's theology, you can actually refuse this gift if you want and still end up in Heaven. You'll need to pay the price yourself though, and it won't be pleasant.)
Why is G-d always spoken about in the Christian view. There are other views of G-d.
Probably because this is a Christian forum. Ask the same question on a Jewish or Muslim forum and you'd probably be speaking of God from a different perspective.
If I'm a good person my whole life, I love and care for my wife and family, I teach my children to respect others and to do the right thing and I help those less fortunate than myself. Why then does God need me to believe in him to be saved? It seems wrong that a loving God would send a good soul to hell just for their disbelief.
And please no quotes from the Bible as a way to answer my question.
That's just the easy way out.
First let me say, I have no conclusive, absolute, clue if you ( or anyone else for that matter ) is going to hell. (wherever and whatever anyone believes that to be).
As a Christian, it has been my experience that no matter how "good" I think I am, the more I reflect on Christ, the more I realize that my definition of "good" is sorely lacking.
Are you talking about the cannibals of the southern Amazon, or the peaceful honey gatherers of northern Amazon? Why are there good ones, and evil ones? The law is written in their hearts, and they are accountable to God too. Leave their judgment to God. You and I have heard of Jesus so we have no excuse.
yes, the cannibals of the southern Amazon, or the peaceful honey gatherers of northern Amazon, the native Americans who were here before Christians, basically anybody who has never been told the Word.
I like that you say those will not perish because God is just and will not judge them for not knowing him. Your view shows God has Mercy.
This leads me to ask the question then, why did God decide that all the persuasion and evangelical word spreading was necessary? If He can judge us by our hearts, why did he send messengers and create the Book, knowing that this evangelisism and missionary work would create controversy and war? Why not just let man abide by his conscious and be judged since man ovbiously has right and wrong written in their hearts already?
This is honestly not a question to stir debate. It is an honest question that I think about a lot and I would love some insight. Your thoughts?
ILNC is referring to the fact that everyone is responsible for their own personal decision to receive Jesus Christ as Savior, or to reject Him and therefore remain under condemnation which means spending the eternal future in the lake of fire. People end up in hell because they choose to reject Christ as their Savior.
That's right Mike, we all have a choice to make, accept Christ as Savior or reject Him. Scripture clearly teaches those who reject Him as Savior will spend eternity separated from Him, their choice.
yes, the cannibals of the southern Amazon, or the peaceful honey gatherers of northern Amazon, the native Americans who were here before Christians, basically anybody who has never been told the Word.
I like that you say those will not perish because God is just and will not judge them for not knowing him. Your view shows God has Mercy.
This leads me to ask the question then, why did God decide that all the persuasion and evangelical word spreading was necessary? If He can judge us by our hearts, why did he send messengers and create the Book, knowing that this evangelisism and missionary work would create controversy and war? Why not just let man abide by his conscious and be judged since man ovbiously has right and wrong written in their hearts already?
This is honestly not a question to stir debate. It is an honest question that I think about a lot and I would love some insight. Your thoughts?
If I may.
I believe that man without God ends up believing some pretty whacky things (as if Christianity isn't whacky). What I'm trying to say is, people were worshiping rocks and suns and animals and they were trying to figure out how they got here and where they were going. Pharaohs thought they were gods, and the pagans worshiped violent gods who always wanted sacrifices for the smallest things. They would burn their children to Moloch, violent and without love. It was a rather nasty time in B.C.
But, here come the Jews. They said there was one God who was sovereign over all and, and their prophets said we didn't need to worship a million different gods to keep them all happy so we could have crops and not get struck by lightening. Their God was different than the pagan gods around them. At least, he was supposed to be. What we have in the Old Testament is a group of people learning and struggling to understand love and sacrifice. But, they ended up doing a poor job, taking advantage of outsiders, charging interest, and manipulating the poor and weak among them with frightening tales.
So, here comes Jesus who came to show people love (his father) in action, and he did a whole lot of shouting and condemning of the religious of his time; the Pharisees. He was compassionate to those around him who were outcasts; drunk, prostitutes, tax collectors and so on. He said that nobody down here could ever reach the light on their own. Creation was made in futility and love was all that mattered in the end. He said to spread the Good News to ALL people. He said to tell everyone that death (our curse) has no sting and creation would one day be restored after all the fighting and darkness had been purged from among us.
Nobody has gotten it right. That's the way it was supposed to be. Not a single one of us will say we saved ourselves and not a single one of us will go wandering out into the dark ever again, after we get a glimpse of the light. I believe it's out there and I believe those who are learning how to love are becoming just like their father.
Faith, hope, love, but the greatest of these is love.
That's right Mike, we all have a choice to make, accept Christ as Savior or reject Him. Scripture clearly teaches those who reject Him as Savior will spend eternity separated from Him, their choice.
"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fall not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32).
Yes indeed, "…when you are converted…." And just when might that be? Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even ‘force,’ if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about.
"And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat; But I have prayed for you, that your faith fall not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren" (Luke 22:31-32).
Yes indeed, "…when you are converted…." And just when might that be? Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even ‘force,’ if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about.
Did you do anything to save yourself? Did you give faith to yourself? Aren't you glad you don't live in North Korea?
( People like myself don't like throwing pearls out there, either, but I'm hoping somebody really wants to learn and understand what's going on.)
Last edited by herefornow; 10-19-2010 at 08:52 PM..
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Ask the same question on a Jewish or Muslim forum and you'd probably be speaking of God from a different perspective. 
). What I'm trying to say is, people were worshiping rocks and suns and animals and they were trying to figure out how they got here and where they were going. Pharaohs thought they were gods, and the pagans worshiped violent gods who always wanted sacrifices for the smallest things. They would burn their children to Moloch, violent and without love. It was a rather nasty time in B.C.
Matthew 7:6
