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God is far more than love. He is a Person. God's essence consists of a number of attributes which exist together in perfect harmony and integrity. No one of His attributes will function in a way which will compromise any other of His attributes. God has perfect love and is love. But His love is in perfect balance and relationship with His sovereignty, righteousness, justice, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, veracity, and eternal life.
It is not love that saves. God's love could not save anyone. God's love could only motivate Him to offer a plan of salvation in which salvation was made possible by His JUSTICE and without compromising His righteousness. Not by His love. Before Adam fell, his point of contact with God was divine love. But God's love could not guarantee that Adam wouldn't lose his relationship with Him. The moment Adam sinned, the relationship between God and man was broken. At that moment, mans point of contact with God switched from divine love to divine justice. It was divine justice which imputed mans sins to Jesus Christ on the cross, and which enabled God to impute His perfect righteousness to the one who believes in Christ resulting in justification of the one who has believed.
God's love for the world - unbelievers, is impersonal love. In impersonal love the virtue is in the one who does the loving, not in the object of the love. In other words, God's love for the world is based on His integrity. Not in anything inherent in man. God does not as one poster said, adore the world. God's love is not some gushing sentimental emotion in which God is ga-ga over man. And God's love will in no way cause Him to compromise His perfection by saving those who don't come to Him through Christ. God has personal love toward the believer. God loves His own righteousness. Since He imputes His own righteousness to the believer, He can personally love the believer.
Nor is the believers personal love for God an empty headed emotion. True love is a mental attitude. And that mental attitude of love is dependent on knowing God. And that means learning the doctrines and principles of the word of God. As the capacity to personally love God increases by learning and applying Bible doctrine to the situations of life, so too will the capacity to have impersonal love for all mankind increase. Believers are never commanded to have personal love for man, but only to have impersonal love. In other words, a believer is commanded to treat others on the basis of his own integrity which is based on his relationship with God. In yet other words, the believer is commanded to treat others on the basis of who and what he is, and not on the basis of who and what they are. Impersonal love is simply the consistant function of your own integrity toward other people. Personal love on the other hand is directed only toward a few.
Impersonal love emphasizes the subject, demands integrity in the subject, requires no personal acquaintance, is directed toward everyone, is unconditional, is virtuous, strong and stable, depends on Bible doctrine, is a problem solver, and is mandatory.
Personal love emphasizes the object, depends upon the attractiveness in the object, requires personal acquaintance, is directed toward a few, is conditional, is virtue dependant, is vulnerable, is volatile, depends on impersonal love, is a problem maker, and is optional.
Eternal salvation is obtained through faith in Christ. Not by love.
Some folks on this thread have impressed me with views and beliefs on Christianity. The rest not so much. I see lots of scripture quoting which I reject out of hand. I question the authenticity and validity of the Bible as a whole. Many use parts of the Bible to justify their beliefs. They pick and choose which parts follow and which part to ignore. Which parts to take literary and which are open to interpenetration. I fail to understand how any holy book could be laced with such evil and intolerance.
God is far more than love. He is a Person. God's essence consists of a number of attributes which exist together in perfect harmony and integrity. No one of His attributes will function in a way which will compromise any other of His attributes. God has perfect love and is love. But His love is in perfect balance and relationship with His sovereignty, righteousness, justice, omniscience, omnipotence, omnipresence, immutability, veracity, and eternal life.
It is not love that saves. God's love could not save anyone. God's love could only motivate Him to offer a plan of salvation in which salvation was made possible by His JUSTICE and without compromising His righteousness. Not by His love. Before Adam fell, his point of contact with God was divine love. But God's love could not guarantee that Adam wouldn't lose his relationship with Him. The moment Adam sinned, the relationship between God and man was broken. At that moment, mans point of contact with God switched from divine love to divine justice. It was divine justice which imputed mans sins to Jesus Christ on the cross, and which enabled God to impute His perfect righteousness to the one who believes in Christ resulting in justification of the one who has believed.
Wow you are so far off base here its scary. You are speaking blasphemy. And for some reason Finn agrees with you.
First you say, "God is far more than love." OK, well God is love - but how can something be "far more" than love? Love itself is the greatest force in the universe because it does not fail. That's why God is love, because God is the greatest force in the universe. God is synonymous with love. All the other attributes of God: holiness, justice, righteousness etc, stem from his love. Not the other way around. If you have/are perfect love, you are also perfectly just. By definition that is what love is. Perfect justice serves to correct and restore. Not perpetuate evil forever. Perfect justice is a part of love. Perfect love is set apart (holy). Perfect love does the right thing (righteousness). etc. etc. etc. Love is the key. Nothing is far more than love, because God is love.
"It is not love that saves. God's love could not save anyone." WOW. Ok this is a real doozy. God's love could not save anyone? BLASPHEMY. You are saying God's love is weak, powerless, could not save a fly. Love is useless I guess. Wake up Mike. Love is not some "ga-ga sentimental emotional" feeling. Love is the most important thing. What do you think Christ's sacrifice on the cross was? There is no greater love than to lay down your life for another. Love is action. Love is doing. Love is protecting. Love is forgiving. Love is saving.
Quote:
God's love for the world - unbelievers, is impersonal love. In impersonal love the virtue is in the one who does the loving, not in the object of the love. In other words, God's love for the world is based on His integrity. Not in anything inherent in man. God does not as one poster said, adore the world. God's love is not some gushing sentimental emotion in which God is ga-ga over man. And God's love will in no way cause Him to compromise His perfection by saving those who don't come to Him through Christ. God has personal love toward the believer. God loves His own righteousness. Since He imputes His own righteousness to the believer, He can personally love the believer.
Nor is the believers personal love for God an empty headed emotion. True love is a mental attitude. And that mental attitude of love is dependent on knowing God. And that means learning the doctrines and principles of the word of God. As the capacity to personally love God increases by learning and applying Bible doctrine to the situations of life, so too will the capacity to have impersonal love for all mankind increase. Believers are never commanded to have personal love for man, but only to have impersonal love. In other words, a believer is commanded to treat others on the basis of his own integrity which is based on his relationship with God. In yet other words, the believer is commanded to treat others on the basis of who and what he is, and not on the basis of who and what they are. Impersonal love is simply the consistant function of your own integrity toward other people. Personal love on the other hand is directed only toward a few.
Impersonal love emphasizes the subject, demands integrity in the subject, requires no personal acquaintance, is directed toward everyone, is unconditional, is virtuous, strong and stable, depends on Bible doctrine, is a problem solver, and is mandatory.
Personal love emphasizes the object, depends upon the attractiveness in the object, requires personal acquaintance, is directed toward a few, is conditional, is virtue dependant, is vulnerable, is volatile, depends on impersonal love, is a problem maker, and is optional.
What kind of "love" requires "no personal acquaintance"? Love is not just a mental attitude. Let us love in action and deed, not just in thoughts and words.
Love is being kind to another soul.
Love is being patient with another soul.
Love is forgiving, protecting, hoping, persevering.
Love does not fail.
Go read 1 Cor 13 a couple dozen times please. That is what God is.
Quote:
Eternal salvation is obtained through faith in Christ. Not by love.
Where do you think the faith comes from?
God commands us to love. If we do not love, we do not know God. But anyone who does love has been born of God. Read it yourself Mike:
1 John 4:7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves hasbeenbornofGod and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love doesnotknowGod, because God is love.
1 John 4:7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves hasbeenbornofGod and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love doesnotknowGod, because God is love.
In 1 John 4 Jesus is talking to people who have already been saved. Yes, Jesus instructs believers to love, and no one has claimed otherwise. Expression of love in itself cannot save anyone. Is an unbelieving mother saved if she loves her baby? No, because only Christ can save her. Unsaved people are capable of loving their babies or their girlfriends, but that does not save them.
Yes. And a persons eternal salvation depends on him understanding that he has a personal responsibility to make that choice. No one is automatically saved. Salvation is conditional. It is contingent upon faith in Christ.
It's heartbreaking to see so many here and in the "real" world who do not understand this.
Thanks Finn. I'm glad you liked it. I don't expect that any of the univeralists will understand it. In fact, I noticed that I have already been accused of blasphemy by one of them. Well, all you can do is to present the truth, and whoever gets it, gets it.
Thanks Finn. I'm glad you liked it. I don't expect that any of the univeralists will understand it. In fact, I noticed that I have already been accused of blasphemy by one of them. Well, all you can do is to present the truth, and whoever gets it, gets it.
That's right Mike, all we are called to do is present to truth, what they do with it is up to them, we're not their Holy Spirit, if they refuse to believe, it's not our your fault or mine.
It's heartbreaking to see so many here and in the "real" world who do not understand this.
Yes it is. And not only do many not understand it, but many resent the fact that God requires a freewill response from man and say that they want nothing to do with 'a god' who would set any condition on salvation.
That's right Mike, all we are called to do is present to truth, what they do with it is up to them, we're not their Holy Spirit, if they refuse to believe, it's not our your fault or mine.
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