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Another thing to consider is (spiritual) maturity. When you are a child, you love your parents with your whole heart, but you still may be a little bit afraid of them. You might be afraid of what they could do, even though they may never ever do anything like that; in the eyes of a child the unknown power of your parents/discipline can be scary.
But as you grow older that fear (terror) turns to respect/reverence and you realize that whatever anger or discipline your parents gave you was because they loved you and because it was necessary for your personal growth.
It's pretty simple , fear of man or fearing anything that is not of God comes to think of it,is not Godly fear , anything which is reference to fearing God is in reverence and awe, and acknowledging him to be Lord.
You have to look within your own heart to know the Truth, Jason. I can't make you do it.
Blessings,
Brian
All I'm saying is the faulty belief system known as Christianity, based on the bible, is totally messed up. Just using bible verses and asking basic questions the entire thing falls apart.
I know the truth. Fortunately, it has nothing to do with God or Christianity. The answers we all seek are within ourselves, not within a 2,000 year old book written by primitive men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman
Another thing to consider is (spiritual) maturity. When you are a child, you love your parents with your whole heart, but you still may be a little bit afraid of them. You might be afraid of what they could do, even though they may never ever do anything like that; in the eyes of a child the unknown power of your parents/discipline can be scary.
But as you grow older that fear (terror) turns to respect/reverence and you realize that whatever anger or discipline your parents gave you was because they loved you and because it was necessary for your personal growth.
I understand this but there are clearly many points in the bible where it still says to "Fear God". If it really means what you're trying to say then it should have just said that. You can't just rehash the entire bible to your own understanding or constantly claim that something was mistranslated to suit your own belief system. There are something like 30,000 branches of Christianity. That illustrates that most people don't like how the bible reads and change it to suit their own personal belief system.
This creates several basic problems. First of all the bible says to not rely on the wisdom of men. Even though men wrote the bible, knowingly changing it further just continues to corrupt what the original message was. Another problem is that each branch of Christianity (usually) believes that there system is the only correct one. This would mean that all others are most likely going to burn in hell for something as simple as praying to saints (Catholicism).
In turn this creates more and more finger pointing and hatred within the Christian community itself. Such bad examples of Jesus like behavior when you have all of these people screaming different interpretations of 2,000 year old rules at one another each believing they are 100% right and justified in preaching their own personal belief system to one another. Its no wonder so many people are becoming turned off to religion.
The basic premise that perfect love drives out fear means there is a problem. Either God's love isn't perfect, you're not supposed to fear God, or God doesn't love you. One of those has to be true or the entire bible falls apart. Either way, the entire thing falls apart so it really doesn't matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps
It's pretty simple , fear of man or fearing anything that is not of God comes to think of it,is not Godly fear , anything which is reference to fearing God is in reverence and awe, and acknowledging him to be Lord.
By the way good post Phazelwood.
If it were pretty simple, as you claim, then there wouldn't be so many thousands of versions of Christianity. Heck, this post wouldn't be happening right now. And if what really mattered in the bible was so easy to understand, you wouldn't have two groups sitting on this message board ALL DAY LONG arguing about weather hell exists or not. Its absolutely ridiculous!
You're translating the bible according to how you want it to read. That is changing the words and bringing in more manlike wisdom, further corrupting whatever the original messages were. You're free to do whatever you want, just know that its not the original message of whatever ancient peoples wrote the bible.
If it were pretty simple, as you claim, then there wouldn't be so many thousands of versions of Christianity. Heck, this post wouldn't be happening right now. And if what really mattered in the bible was so easy to understand, you wouldn't have two groups sitting on this message board ALL DAY LONG arguing about weather hell exists or not. Its absolutely ridiculous!
You're translating the bible according to how you want it to read. That is changing the words and bringing in more manlike wisdom, further corrupting whatever the original messages were. You're free to do whatever you want, just know that its not the original message of whatever ancient peoples wrote the bible.
Well certainly you have just entered into the arena of ridiculous by pointing out everyones argument then supplying one of your own.
But you are right, it is not necessarily simple and there is a need for what I posted because there are many people I know that believe in God and are still afraid. That is sad to me and I do what I can to help people see joy and peace in their life.
If that is making the bible into what I want, so be it, I do not want or need what you have in the first place.
Well certainly you have just entered into the arena of ridiculous by pointing out everyones argument then supplying one of your own.
But you are right, it is not necessarily simple and there is a need for what I posted because there are many people I know that believe in God and are still afraid. That is sad to me and I do what I can to help people see joy and peace in their life.
If that is making the bible into what I want, so be it, I do not want or need what you have in the first place.
I fail to see how my point of view is ridiculous. I don't claim to be a Christian and as such, am not subject to the 2,000 year old rulebook that includes specific instructions for slave beatings.
I also am not claiming that everyone's viewpoints are ridiculous, just that its a fruitless waste of time to sit around all day long arguing about this rule or that law. It gets you nowhere and nobody ever changes their point of view from a bible passage. You can find passages in the bible to backup anything you want to say. People find said bible passage, then ignore all the others that contradict it. Convenient!
There is nothing to fear in this life or the next except your own state of mental being. There really is nothing to fear but fear itself. Those who get into a mental state of "Hell" are there because that is how they interpret reality. This is of course my own understanding and opinion. I have one thing in common with Universalists in that I believe hell is a myth or temporary condition. I also believe heaven is a myth or subject to individualist interpretations. I simply believe there are other realms and that they probably don't have titles we humans are so eager to put upon them.
Some people need a rigid and structured belief system that the bible proposes. Others need to experience and grow on their own terms. And some will continue to fail over and over until they get it right. Things simply aren't as black and white as humans want to make them out to be.
As far as wanting or needing what I have, you are correct. Understand though, that is how it is for everyone. Nobody wants or needs any beliefs imposed upon them by another human claiming they get their information from a higher authority. Everyone needs to evolve spiritually on their own terms and their own understanding. You can't force people to see anything...especially if they aren't ready.
All I'm saying is the faulty belief system known as Christianity, based on the bible, is totally messed up. Just using bible verses and asking basic questions the entire thing falls apart.
I know the truth. Fortunately, it has nothing to do with God or Christianity. The answers we all seek are within ourselves, not within a 2,000 year old book written by primitive men.
I understand this but there are clearly many points in the bible where it still says to "Fear God". If it really means what you're trying to say then it should have just said that. You can't just rehash the entire bible to your own understanding or constantly claim that something was mistranslated to suit your own belief system. There are something like 30,000 branches of Christianity. That illustrates that most people don't like how the bible reads and change it to suit their own personal belief system.
This creates several basic problems. First of all the bible says to not rely on the wisdom of men. Even though men wrote the bible, knowingly changing it further just continues to corrupt what the original message was. Another problem is that each branch of Christianity (usually) believes that there system is the only correct one. This would mean that all others are most likely going to burn in hell for something as simple as praying to saints (Catholicism).
In turn this creates more and more finger pointing and hatred within the Christian community itself. Such bad examples of Jesus like behavior when you have all of these people screaming different interpretations of 2,000 year old rules at one another each believing they are 100% right and justified in preaching their own personal belief system to one another. Its no wonder so many people are becoming turned off to religion.
The basic premise that perfect love drives out fear means there is a problem. Either God's love isn't perfect, you're not supposed to fear God, or God doesn't love you. One of those has to be true or the entire bible falls apart. Either way, the entire thing falls apart so it really doesn't matter.
If it were pretty simple, as you claim, then there wouldn't be so many thousands of versions of Christianity. Heck, this post wouldn't be happening right now. And if what really mattered in the bible was so easy to understand, you wouldn't have two groups sitting on this message board ALL DAY LONG arguing about weather hell exists or not. Its absolutely ridiculous!
You're translating the bible according to how you want it to read. That is changing the words and bringing in more manlike wisdom, further corrupting whatever the original messages were. You're free to do whatever you want, just know that its not the original message of whatever ancient peoples wrote the bible.
Hi Jason,
I actually liked your post, and I think much of what you say has truth in it. And to me, truth comes from God. So I think we are on the right track!
There are many denominations and doctrines; many have been killed simply because they didn't agree with someone else's doctrine. This is not Godly, and it is not of the Spirit. In all situations, we are able to see something that God is wanting to teach us as we learn to be more like Him.
I also agree with your more recent post, where you say that you cannot force people to accept something that they are not ready to see.
So each of us is free to speak his/her mind about that which he/she believes that God is showing about Himself.
For example, some people believe that God gives a variety of "levels" of truth within the Scriptures, and just as an onyx is different in value and glory than a diamond, so too, some truths are more glorious, but not able to be "found" by everybody.
Many may believe in "an eye for an eye." But not as many are able to believe in "turn the other cheek."
So too, "fear God" is one level of understanding God and our relationship to Him. "Love God" is a higher understanding.
We are all growing; may the Lord show us all what we need for today, and may we all know His grace and mercy!
I choose to take my understanding one step further and replace God with ourselves and one another. I think the highest level of reality is probably some advanced collective of consciousness that is literally trillions of separate beings combined into one. You can call that God if you want to, I would rather leave it undefined as the word "God" usually means a bearded dude in the sky.Moderator cut: inappropriate
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-08-2010 at 02:53 PM..
Reason: inappropriate language
I fail to see how my point of view is ridiculous. I don't claim to be a Christian and as such, am not subject to the 2,000 year old rulebook that includes specific instructions for slave beatings.
None of that has anything to do with the point I made, you complain of the uselessness of arguments here and then provide your argument to someone.
Why assert an argument if everyone doing it is in the realm of ridiculous and then try to say you are not in it too?
I choose to take my understanding one step further and replace God with ourselves and one another. I think the highest level of reality is probably some advanced collective of consciousness that is literally trillions of separate beings combined into one. You can call that God if you want to, I would rather leave it undefined as the word "God" usually means a bearded dude in the sky Moderator cut: inappropriate
Yes, I think you're on to something here.. The message of loving one's neighbor as one loves him/herself, as well as the message of "what you do to the least of these you do to Me" are along this same line of thinking.
Our way of conceptualizing God is based on notions of "an old man" etc until we feel something move within us, which causes us to consider something much bigger.
Blessings,
Brian
Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-08-2010 at 02:55 PM..
None of that has anything to do with the point I made, you complain of the uselessness of arguments here and then provide your argument to someone.
Why assert an argument if everyone doing it is in the realm of ridiculous and then try to say you are not in it too?
What use then is your point of view here?
Sure it does. You still haven't shown me how you can possibly prove what I said false. The simple reason is, you can't. It derails the entire bible and your belief system then falls apart.
Either God doesn't love us, God's love is imperfect, or all the commands in the bible that say "Fear God" are lies. One of those three has to be true or the entire thing collapses. All you can come up with is "You aren't translating the word fear correctly" or "We translate fear into respect". Those are not valid points as you're changing the words of the bible.
My point is not ridiculous, its logical and can't be proven wrong. That is the difference.
The point I made about the UR's and fundies arguing all day is a separate issue but one I find especially disturbing because that is all the Christianity forums are now. In the end, as a Christian, you probably believe you're not going to hell, so whats the point in arguing ALL DAY LONG about weather it exists or not. And a lot of you start throwing verbal attacks at one another. Its a very, very sad display of Jesus like behavior.
Furthermore, it illustrates that most of you on here are unsure of your belief system. Thats why you sit on here attempting to lure or trap others into your own personal belief system as a way of justifying to yourself that its true and valid. This doesn't make it so. It just shows weakness.
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