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A "hard heart" isn't an insult, it's an observation. I think that is what the problem is here.
Sparrow, it is disappointing to see you try to justify the sin of others. Just yesterday your fellow UR believers called me these things, and this is just yesterday:
No, Sparrow, these comments are not 'observations', they are insults and judments of my heart and my faith. And on a number of occations I have been told flat out that I do not know God, and that I do not have the Holy Spirit, and even that I have an evil spirit.
You can spend all day trying to justify such comments, but you can't hide the fact that comments like this are bad fruit. It is ok for you to believe what you believe, but it is not Christlike for you to call those who do not agree with you as 'hard hearted'. It is hurtful. On Sunday I mentioned I was going to church and that I was going to pray for Mystic, and Ilene told me that my church is made up of "bunch of hypocrites" and that I go there only to fool them. Just like that. She doesn't even know what church I go to. Why do you guys do this??? And the next post they'll say "love your neighbor, love, love, love". Do you have any idea how that reflects of UR?
There are millons of people who truly love God and who believe like I do, and for you to judge them like this is not of love. I think you know it, but you feel obligated to defend and justify your friends no matter what they say. Some of the URs cross the line by miles, and they do it often, and I have never seen any UR, including you, say anything except encouragement to them.
It is important that you to realize that what you say here, and what you condone here, exposes the fruit of universalism, and at this point it is not looking pretty. It is looking very angry and very disrespectful toward your fellow human beings.
Like I said, I am reducing my activity here because it is becoming very unpleasant to come here and read all the venom and unfriendliness. I don't need it. I don't need the judgment.
I don't think it's so much the doctrine of ET, sparrow. Nobody believes people will be tormented in hell for eternity by God. Not even the WBC group, deep down.
My point is this: how can a group of people who claim to know God, who declare that God loves us sooooo much.. treat people so badly?
This is why we ALL need to inspect our doctrines.
Like I've said before, I am not immune to this; I spent many years "in bed with" ET doctrines, and I was confronted day in and day out with the fact that I was not able to love my neighbor, because he was rejected by God because he was a "sinner," "unlike little saved me."
It takes honesty to look at what our doctrines do to our hearts. Are they bringing forth good fruits of kindness, meekness, love, encouragement, patience, supportive attitudes? Or are they making us feel "better than others" and "fed up that others are living in sin?"
And,
if we want to take it all one step deeper:
are we mad at God for not drawing more people? Do we accuse God of being indifferent about the suffering and darkness we live in?
Something to reflect upon..
Blessings,
Brian
Hi Brian,
Oh, I totally get what your saying but my post was not aimed at the original topic of this thread, but more aimed at those who are complaining about the words "hard heart" being used as a description. I really wanted to address that.
Well Finn... It is dissapointing to me that you didn't even read what I had to say apparently. Because if you did, then your post sure doesn't address anything that I said.
Further... look at the all of the things you just PUT on ME.
Go read your post again, look at all of the things you just IMPLIED about me.
A "hard heart" isn't an insult, it's an observation. I think that is what the problem is here.
If someone can talk about the majority of mankind being tortured for 10 years without breaking down, without crying, without completely and utterly FREAKING OUT.... then that person has a "hard heart". Unable to feel the emotion or the impact of the subject they are talking about.
But we are not talking about 10 years here.
We are talking about FOREVER. As in NEVER ENDING.
And we they are saying it is the CREATOR who is set it up this way to allow it to happen.
A hard heart is a heart that is NOT actually DEALING with or PROCESSING what they believe. The more walls they put up around their heart when it comes to this issue, the harder it will be to deal with it and see it for what it is. And the more damage you can do to yourself and to others.
And you know what YOU DO CARE!!!! Your building up the walls AGAINST PROCESSING this belief means you DO CARE!!!!
When someone speaks of a "hard heart", again it is not an insult. It is someone trying to wake you up. It is trying to say .. "Hey!!!! Wake UP!!! You are NOT processing what you believe."
When it comes to eternal torment, some people may as well be talking about potatoes or doorknobs or curtain rods or roof shingles. There is NO emotion, it's just a very NEUTRAL topic. And it is VERY telling. And you can't fake emotion, either. You can just SAY "Well yes I do care.." No. NO, brother... NO, sister... we are talking about human beings being separated from their families forever and not only that but no hope of ever reconciling, and not only that, being TORTURED FOREVER by the very CREATOR who created them in the first place... and for WHAT?? WHAT???? For living in this world, this dark world, and not believing the right thing, for being CONFUSED about what truth was?!! My God!!!! WAKE UP!! You CARE! Your heart was a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful heart... but it could NOT deal with the thought of your CREATOR doing this to ANYONE. Don't you see?? Your heart is STILL Beautiful behind that WALL. WE want to bring that beautiful heart OUT so it can PROCESS this belief of yours. It needs to be dealt with or you'll never get PAST it, and see something so beautiful that we know your heart will just SING because of it!
YOU CARE!!! I know you care
WAKE UP!!! What you say you believe, you don't ACTUALLY believe, because if you did, you would be having a freaking nervous breakdown.
But you don't believe it down in your heart of hearts OR you've built a wall up around your heart so it doesn't affect you the way it should.
You are not going to realize you have a hard heart. Until God breaks down that wall.
He broke down my wall. It wasn't easy.
But afterwards I became FREE and finally started to understand the TRUE character of our Creator.
When people say your heart is hard. They are not insulting you. They love you, and are trying to WAKE YOU UP.
They KNOW and understand what is going on with you, and they want to bring you out of something you do NOT even REALIZE you are IN at the moment.
Some of the "hard talk" I think, is just them trying to slap you, give you smelling salts and WAKE you up.
It is done out of LOVE! I know it doesn't "seem" that way now, but it only SEEMS that way.
I can guarantee you.
Well Finn... It is dissapointing to me that you didn't even read what I had to say apparently. Because if you did, then your post sure doesn't address anything that I said.
I read your post.
Quote:
Further... look at the all of the things you just PUT on ME.
Go read your post again, look at all of the things you just IMPLIED about me.
I'll say it again: when you condone and try to justify inproper behaviour it reflects poorly on you too. You seem to be the only moderate ur here, who does not resort to insults, and it surprises me to see you try to justify such behaviour in others.
I personally have a difficult time talking with you. I don't like to engage you in conversation and this is one of the reason's why. A lot of times, you do NOT address what another person is trying to say. You bypass their words, their thoughts to turn it into something that YOU Want to talk about or something that you want to espouse.
So if you don't want to address what I had to say... then don't use my post as a springboard to complaining again about other people here.
Sparrow, it is disappointing to see you try to justify the sin of others. Just yesterday your fellow UR believers called me these things, and this is just yesterday:
No, Sparrow, these comments are not 'observations', they are insults and judments of my heart and my faith. And on a number of occations I have been told flat out that I do not know God, and that I do not have the Holy Spirit, and even that I have an evil spirit.
You can spend all day trying to justify such comments, but you can't hide the fact that comments like this are bad fruit. It is ok for you to believe what you believe, but it is not Christlike for you to call those who do not agree with you as 'hard hearted'. It is hurtful. On Sunday I mentioned I was going to church and that I was going to pray for Mystic, and Ilene told me that my church is made up of "bunch of hypocrites" and that I go there only to fool them. Just like that. She doesn't even know what church I go to. Why do you guys do this??? And the next post they'll say "love your neighbor, love, love, love". Do you have any idea how that reflects of UR?
There are millons of people who truly love God and who believe like I do, and for you to judge them like this is not of love. I think you know it, but you feel obligated to defend and justify your friends no matter what they say. Some of the URs cross the line by miles, and they do it often, and I have never seen any UR, including you, say anything except encouragement to them.
It is important that you to realize that what you say here, and what you condone here, exposes the fruit of universalism, and at this point it is not looking pretty. It is looking very angry and very disrespectful toward your fellow human beings.
Like I said, I am reducing my activity here because it is becoming very unpleasant to come here and read all the venom and unfriendliness. I don't need it. I don't need the judgment.
Finn,
ANYone who uses put-downs and name-calling is in the wrong, no matter what side of the ET/UR fence they're on. You're right.
I personally have a difficult time talking with you. I don't like to engage you in conversation and this is one of the reason's why. A lot of times, you do NOT address what another person is trying to say. You bypass their words, their thoughts to turn it into something that YOU Want to talk about or something that you want to espouse.
So if you don't want to address what I had to say... then don't use my post as a springboard to complaining again about other people here.
That is what is dissapointing to me.
sparrow
Your message said urs behave the way they do because they love me, and I showed you that is a pile of bull, and I listed the things they called me just in one day. Very insulting things. You entire post was only an attempt to justify their inproper behaviour. That is what is dissapointing to me.
Finn, this is the last time I am going to say it, bro.
I was talking SPECIFICALLY about the term "hard heart".
I mentioned NOTHING ELSE. I am not condoning ANYTHING.
People are adults, they can speak for themselves.
I am not the "UR Police". So stop pretending that I am.
I am just a person who has a certain belief.
Do you REALLY want me to lump you with all other other posters out there who believe as you do? Do you???? I don't think you do, bro.
So stop doing it to me.
peace,
sparrow
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