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Unfortunatly you do not get to dictate your terms to God and demand Him to dance to your music. You are trying, but it will not work.
We are not dictating anything to God. We are using what Christ taught us about Good and Evil to truly understand what He wants from us and what He would never ever do to any of us based on what He refused to do to His tormentors and murderers. Using the teachings and example of the ONLY Word of God is the only way to know what He wants . . . NOT the savage interpretations of men using their precepts and doctrines based on ancient ignorance.
Unfortunatly you do not get to dictate your terms to God and demand Him to dance to your music. You are trying, but it will not work.
And fortunately for humanity you are not God and even though you think eternal torture is good and righteous justice, God himself who is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked promises to heal them of their hardened hearts and purify them with his cleansing fire.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-01-2011 at 07:06 PM..
that attitude is exactly why the following will always be true
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber
Unfortunately you do not get to dictate your terms to God and demand Him to dance to your music. You are trying, but it will not work.
That attitude is exactly why the following will always be true.
Several dozens of Greek scholars see it differently from ETers.
The following is "God's term" as URs see it.
Any "hell" there will be is kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) Matthew 25:46.
That is not the ET opinion, but it is the opinion of the several dozens of Greek scholars that I guided people to on my post #1064.
So it depends on the Greek scholars on which you choose to rely.
IMO that is the key issue of the ET/UR debate, and that is why the debate probably will never be resolved and will always end in a stalemate.
That attitude is exactly why the following will always be true.
Several dozens of Greek scholars see it differently from ETers.
The following is "God's term" as URs see it.
Any "hell" there will be is kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) Matthew 25:46.
That is not the ET opinion, but it is the opinion of the several dozens of Greek scholars that I guided people to on my post #1064.
So it depends on the Greek scholars on which you choose to rely.
IMO that is the key issue of the ET/UR debate, and that is why the debate probably will never be resolved and will always end in a stalemate.
Or another possiblity is that the Greek scholars that say Any "hell" there will be is kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) are under the delusion that God sends because of their evilness.
What do the Greek scholars you uphold subsitute words with when it comes to the meanings "the wrath remains" John 3:36, the two books of Revelation 20:12-15, the "never will be forgiven" Mark 3:29
Why don't we see the greek lessons about these verses?
Is it because there is no way of acknowledging these as the truth while claiming God is righteous in all he does?
The real key issue is that either UR eventual rubber stamp theology is the ultimate truth or Mark 3:29 is the ultimate truth.
Or harder still ...either UR eventual rubber stamp theology is the ultimate truth or John 3:36 is the ultimate truth.
Next time you have a chance...find out from the greek scholars just how exactly is time measured in a place not bound by time.
What do the Greek scholars you uphold subsitute words with when it comes to the meanings "the wrath remains" John 3:36, the two books of Revelation 20:12-15, the "never will be forgiven" Mark 3:29
Why don't we see the greek lessons about these verses?
URs see the Greek lesson in those verses.
The wrath remains for the eon, and "Never be forgiven" means that they will suffer the consequences. But the consequenses are eonian, not eternal.
URs believe that God has a plan for the ages of time that will eventually include the salvation of everyone. GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE http://www.saviourofall.org/Tracts/Eons2.html
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-01-2011 at 07:52 PM..
Reason: addition
The real key issue is that either UR eventual rubber stamp theology is the ultimate truth or Mark 3:29 is the ultimate truth.
I don't see this as an issue of ET versus UR, Twin. In fact, given that the Holy Spirit is the TRUE NATURE of God . . . I see your belief in the ancient ignorance as being in danger of violating Mark 3:29 King James Version (KJV)
29But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
Quote:
Or harder still ...either UR eventual rubber stamp theology is the ultimate truth or John 3:36 is the ultimate truth.
Similarly . . . I see no such issues in John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Clearly this says that we must believe ON Christ . . . which is an inner acceptance of the guidance of His Holy Spirit in our daily lives in "love of God and each other." No disagreement with UR there. The believeth NOT the Son says nothing about believing the "precepts and doctrines of men" that you believe Twin . . . it means believe what He taught and showed us and follow Him or face the consequences (wrath). No disagreement with UR there . . . we reap what we sow.
Given the ominous import of Mark 3:29 . . . I would think very carefully about what you believe God's Holy Spirit is really like, Twin.
And fortunately for humanity you are not God and even though you think eternal torture is good and righteous justice, God himself who is kind to the ungrateful and the wicked promises to heal them of their hardened hearts and purify them with his cleansing fire.
You quoted the verse you are talking about, and in the past I have explained and proven to you what it means, and I do not see the point of repeating the facts to you. You did not read/understand it last time, so there is no reason to believe you would read/understand it this time.
You quoted the verse you are talking about, and in the past I have explained and proven to you what it means, and I do not see the point of repeating the facts to you. You did not read/understand it last time, so there is no reason to believe you would read/understand it this time.
I think this a a good spot to repeat what I said before
I think this a good spot to repeat what I said before.
I agree with William Barclay who wrote about Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis, which was not originally an ethical word at all. It originally meant the pruning of trees to make them grow better. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about that verse too. Chapter Eleven
For me the key issue of the ET/UR debate is the meaning of the word aionios coupled with the fact that kolasis always means remedial punishment.
Here are many more Greek scholars who express an opinion about aionios.
Louis Abbott and the other Greek scholars that he quotes in chapters three and twelve of AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
Ilene came to a point in her life when she was willing to actually read this evidence, and it helped to convince her that UR is true. She said, "I decided to listen to what URs have to say." I think it's probably true to say that there are no ETers on this forum who have the slightest interest in opening one of those links. That is because they are so sure they are right and all those many Greek scholars are wrong.
So, like I said on a previous post, if you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that that is exactly what God is like.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 07-01-2011 at 09:53 PM..
Reason: addition
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that attitude is exactly why the following will always be true
URs see the Greek lesson in those verses
I think this a a good spot to repeat what I said before
