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Since we're allowed to talk about it again, let's do that. Let's keep it civil and start from the beginning. I know there is a huge chasm between what Fundamentalists and Universalists believe, but there is common ground believe it or not.
There is a place that we commonly refer to as "hell" but it is for correction, discipline and cleansing.....not for eternity. I so wish we could all agree on this but we can't and that's why we need to continue to discuss it. I would like to really delve into the heart of the matter with scripture and opinion as well because after all the interpretation of scripture is at best a matter of opinion. I know we've covered this time and time again, but I think it would serve us all well to be reminded of why the other "side" believes what they believe and to enlighten each other about this serious subject.
This isn't about changing anyone's mind, just a way to share our beliefs about this very touchy subject without hostility or damnation. Sharing. That's it.
Most of you know that I was a fundamentalist but now I'm a Universalist so I know very well both sides of the coin. Breaking away from what you have been taught for so many years is next to impossible but it can be done. I'm not saying this to change anyone's mind but I would like to see some of the staunch ETer's soften their approach and have an open mind.
I'll start.....what changed my mind and heart? It began with me going toe to toe with the Universalists on the board and arguing with them constantly because I thought what they were teaching was nothing but pure heresy. Evil, from the devil himself.
Then something happened one day.....I decided to really talk with them instead of arguing and to listen to what they had to say. I would like for this thread to be an opportunity for ALL to voice their opinions without arguing (if possible) so that we can better understand where each one of us is coming from. I don't see why this has to be a taboo subject if we can all just agree to disagree but still be able to discuss it. OK?
IMO:it takes a dark heart to believe an ALL powerful being, that for Him nothing is to hard to accomplish His desires, will torture for all eternity His the vast majority of His creation. i was there once myself, but thanks to God He began to clear the dark glass and continues to do so daily.....it's a long road, and a BIG load to get rid of.
if any care to spend about 30 mins this is good scriptural enlightenment to the love of God:
I would like for this thread to be an opportunity for ALL to voice their opinions without arguing (if possible) so that we can better understand where each one of us is coming from. I don't see why this has to be a taboo subject if we can all just agree to disagree but still be able to discuss it. OK?
First comment is perhaps now is the time to also listen to atheists. Though I am a life long atheists, many are former believers that saw the light so to speak.
As an atheists I also completely dismiss hell (all versions) but is was the lack of civility of those that do believe in it, and their version in specific and irrational inability to even consider a different view that have made to topic taboo.
From the viewpoint of an atheist, to watch the discussions of people that are supposedly believing in the same god, and reading from the same book have such disproportional different views, has been amusing and scary .
Because, Jesus said, in hell the worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched. The fire represents external torment and the worm describes internal torment, neither of which ever end. There are many other verses which describe hell as a terrible, dark place of eternal, fearful punishment.
In Mark 9:46, Jesus Christ says about hell: "Where the wormdieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
The man in Luke 16:24 cries: ". . .I am tormented in this flame"
In Matthew 13:42, Jesus says: "And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."
In Matthew 25:41, Jesus says: "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire,. . ."
Revelation 20:15 says, " And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"
Hades - A mythical place for the dead - just and unjust
Gehenna - Metaphor used to denote the fiery destruction of the wars from 66 - 70 AD
Lake of Fire - Same as Gehenna
Sheol - the ground underneath your feet where the dead bodies lay.
I'm personally still in the "I don't know because I'm still studying, but I hope UR people are right" position....so I guess I'm a "IDKBISBIHURPAR." Really rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? ;p Hopefully thats not an obscenity in another country.
I hope this is not too off topic, but since Ilene converted to UR from ET, I'm just curious: Have any of the ETer's on this Forum converted to ET from UR?
Because, Jesus said, in hell the worm doesn't die and the fire is never quenched. The fire represents external torment and the worm describes internal torment, neither of which ever end. There are many other verses which describe hell as a terrible, dark place of eternal, fearful punishment.
There is a saying, everybody dies but not everybody really lives. These are fearful people. Are they not in hell already? What is the point of an actual hell? A worm would never believe he/she deserved the torment, an attitude that more than likely existed on Earth.
I'm personally still in the "I don't know because I'm still studying, but I hope UR people are right" position....so I guess I'm a "IDKBISBIHURPAR." Really rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? ;p Hopefully thats not an obscenity in another country.
I hope this is not too off topic, but since Ilene converted to UR from ET, I'm just curious: Have any of the ETer's on this Forum converted to ET from UR?
Yes, there has been several who walked away from UR.
Ilene, if Hell is such a bad place why is God there?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there:
if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. Psa_139:8
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) so that we can better understand where each one of us is coming from. I don't see why this has to be a taboo subject if we can all just agree to disagree but still be able to discuss it. OK?
and scary 
.
