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I could say the same thing about the condition of your heart, that you do not understand the duality of God's love and God's standard of Holiness. Both are discussed in the Bible. I could ask you how an all-loving God would allow the temporal suffering we see on Earth. An atheist might say that your all-loving God seems to be ridiculous in the face of reality on Earth.
You have read and understand nothing. WE have Dominion on this earth so everything you just said is bogus.
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I have paid close attention to the thread and all the countless others like it on this forum, and what matters just as much as what you SAY is what your beliefs can logically be extrapolated to lead to, even if you don't realize or acknowledge them. Under the doctrines of complete universalism, there is no need for anyone to reap any consequences at all under the atonement of Christ. There is no need to be born again, there is no need to obey the commands, there is no need to do anything other than what Hitler did.
Talk about completely refuting your own assertion that you have read and understood!!!! You are CLUELESS about Christian Universalism.You are parroting what you have been indoctrinated to believe about Universalism . . . not what you read in this forum. NONE of what you assert is true . . . NONE of it. You have created a straw man Universalism in your mind so you can continue to believe the heinous evil about ET. I detect no love in your doctrine nor in your attitude toward your fellow Christians who disagree with you. Bringing Hitler up is a sign of weakness in your arguments.
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In exchange for power, money and priviledge, one can risk the "consequences" that one reaps in this life, and then move on to eternal life after death. The miniscule temporal consequences that Hitler suffereed because of his evil were inconsequential in the context of eternity.
Again you reveal your lack of understanding. "Reaping what we sow" means exactly that . . . NOT MORE than we sow and NOT LESS. Hitler's consequences are in no way trivial.
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If Universallism is correct, than the last chapters of Revelation, as well as many portions of the gospels, are incorrect and unreliable. Asserting that the descriptions of the Lake of Fire are metaphorical are dubious, both in light of the fact that metaphors are not built that way, and in light of other scriptures that support literal interpretations.The parable of the Virgins and the Lampstands is a metaphor. The water that Jesus described to the woman at the well is a metaphor. But the descriptions of the Lake of Fire are not metaphorical. They are... descriptions.
More of your unsupportable IF . . . THEN . . . assertions. Pretending YOU know definitively what the most obscure and enigmatic book in the entire bible unambiguously means or cannot mean is supreme arrogance.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 07-17-2011 at 12:41 PM..
I believe that the statement that "God is LOVE", based on the biblical description of what LOVE IS, precludes the possibility that that God would send anyone to eternal torment, or allow them to suffer for eternity. So, I haven't saved myself ... LOVE has saved me.
You declare yourself saved by arguing that everyone is saved. No faith required. According to your view I am saved too, although I reject your religion, but it leaves me wondering what I am saved from. You say God is love and nothing else, but the Bible teaches Christ saves us from our sin, and also from God's wrath and judgment. You do not believe in hell, wrath or judgment, so you are only saved from sin, but many people LOVE sin/darkness.
Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Salvation is promised to those who believe
Romans 1: 6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
You declare yourself saved by arguing that everyone is saved. No faith required.
I said I have been saved from the torment of believing in a God who would allow billions of people to suffer unimaginable torment for eternity.
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According to your view I am saved too, although I reject your religion, but it leaves me wondering what I am saved from.
According to you, you still believe in eternal torment, so no, you haven't been saved from what I have been. How that belief has impacted you may be nothing like the way or the the extent that it impacted me, and only God knows in what way being delivered from that belief would be salvation for you.
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You say God is love and nothing else, but the Bible teaches Christ saves us from our sin, and also from God's wrath and judgment. You do not believe in hell, wrath or judgment, so you are only saved from sin, but many people LOVE sin/darkness.
I do believe in judgment, Finn. I know that I reap what I sow. I know that this world and everyone in it is reaping what we humans have collectively sown and continue to.
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Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe that since the Bible says that God loves all, then God's wrath is directed at sin, and the impact that our sin, individually and collectively, has had on us all. To the extent and as long we remain attached to that sin, we are going to suffer. But God hasn't destined us to suffer for eternity. Love is patient and kind, it never fails, and it will accomplish it's purpose of the salvation of all, by separating/delivering us from the sin that causes us to suffer.
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Salvation is promised to those who believe
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Romans 1: 6 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
The name of Jesus assures that "God saves". The Bible assures that God is love, and therefore everything that proceeds from God/love will serve a loving purpose. If the bible is to believed, then we should be able to trust those things.
I said I have been saved from the torment of believing in a God who would allow billions of people to suffer unimaginable torment for eternity.
Not you, what am I saved from? I am not tormented by my beliefs like you were. On the contrary my relationship with my God brings me peace and joy. It seems you had a personal problem, and now you have found a religion which "saves" you from it. It is not UR which "saves" you, it is the denial which did it. Everyone who ever was afraid of hell was deliverd from that fear when they were saved. I don't know any believers who are afraid of hell. Accrding to what you have said I do not have anything to be saved from.
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I do believe in judgment, Finn. I know that I reap what I sow. I know that this world and everyone in it is reaping what we humans have collectively sown and continue to.
This is it? This is the punishment? I love my life. No, please don't "save" me from this. It's like saying you'll kill my wife in order to "save" me from her. But no, I do not need such salvation, I love my life and my wife, and I love my God just the way He is.
Not you, what am I saved from? I am not tormented by my beliefs like you were. On the contrary my relationship with my God bring me peace and joy.
Given what it implies about the state of your empathy and love for others besides yourself . . . I would not be so proud of your lack of discomfort with ET, Finn.
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This is it? This is the punishment? I love my life. No, please don't "save" me from this.
Stop trying to misrepresent the views of others, Finn . . . it is past the point of annoyance and into the area of harassment and trolling. Just because anything short of ET is "no biggie" to you . . . I assure you it will be a "biggie" if you have to encounter it.
Over 280 deleted posts and about 10 mod cuts pretty well says why.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 07-17-2011 at 04:40 PM..
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