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Migol, would you mind sharing why you are so certain that the Body of Christ can only be effictive in it's work of reconciliation in the here and now?
I know you talked in a previous post about the passage in John which speaks of not taking his followers out of the "world", and it seems that you equate that with meaning this earth? But one of the Strong's definitions of the word translated as world, "kosmos", is: the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human family. Do you think it is possible that Jesus was saying his Body would not be taken out from among the human family until the purpose of total reconcilation was complete, whether that means in the here and now, or in the hereafter?
Sheesh, you're so much nicer than I am, Pleroo. And pretty darn smart too.
No, no resentment on my part Finn. I don't resent those who believe in ET but I do think that belief is harmful on different levels to those who hold to it and I do try to point those things out. What anyone does with what I (or you, or anyone else) say is up to them, but my hope is that my words may accomplish some good.
Do some good with comments like that? Very unlikely. Comments like that are more likely to get people to stand up and correct your error.
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Perhaps if you read my original post to Mystic (the one you responded to) that will give you some idea. The word hades was translated "hell" in some translations of the Bible (as was sheol, Gehenna and Tartarus). In other translations, hades is translated as the grave/death, but many people still think of "hell" as a place of torment. And, yes, Revelation says that hades/"hell" will be thrown into the LOF, but many Christians are not aware of that. We can blame the various translations for the confusion.
Just because it is translated like that in KJV doesn't mean that no one knows the truth. It sounds like you are the one who is, or has been, confused about it, not the Christians. Do not assign your own confusion to others.
I don't understand why you think God is obligated to offer a reason to anybody. If I thought that, it would be arrogance on my part.
Why? Gee, I don't know, maybe because there are thousands of other religions in the world and to give us some comfort on certain aspects of his nature just to be sure we're not actually worshiping a false god or even Satan instead? I don't expect all my questions to be answered by any means, but I do expect reasons to logically justify an idea that's more extreme running into a crowded mall with a bomb strapped to my chest for martyrdom.
There are hard truths in Christianity, but even the hardest ones in the Old Testament where God seems to have cultures massacred have potentially reasonable explanations (such as clearing the path of anyone who might destroy the lineage of Jesus, which is alot more important). Thus far, I haven't seen anything that even comes close to justifying your idea of hell.
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Originally Posted by twin.spin
I frankly don't know who William Lane Craig, but if he considers (based on what you say) is accurate, then somebody needs to rephrase the title to:
the top incorrect conservative Christian Apologitics Debator
I see, so forget actually researching a man that has probably forgotten information that you and I will ever learn, just dogmatically pass judgment. This is just shameless. Grow up.
Do some good with comments like that? Very unlikely. Comments like that are more likely to get people to stand up and correct your error.
Comments like what Finn? That Pleroo hopes that what she is saying might have an impact in a positive way somehow? Yeah, wow that's really dangerous.
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Just because it is translated like that in KJV doesn't mean that no one knows the truth. It sounds like you are the one who is, or has been, confused about it, not the Christians. Do not assign your own confusion to others.
Could you be more blatant with your disdain towards Pleroo? Just saying......And what??? Are you saying there's no confusion, what with 30,000 different denominations and just the sheer number of different beliefs right here at C-D?? Why you gotta be so mean Finn?
Jn 17:20 “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
Colossians3:1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.
Are we not equal to Christ if we have believed in the message?
No. We are not remotely equal to Christ . . . and it is "believe ON" Him in a way that affects our daily lives and "fruits."
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You sound like the pharisees that questioned our Lord and called him blasphemous because he made himself equal to God. then the Lord said, is it not written, "I have said, ye are gods."
Feel free to stand before God and tell Him you are a god if you wish, Migol. I think I'l stick with telling Him I "love God and each other."
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I know its hard to grasp... but the rebirth happens in this present life as is evident by every scripture I posted, including the one above in Colossians.
It is not hard to grasp because it is absurd . . .unless you really are "like the wind" and can flow wherever you wish.. When you are born of Spirit you are Spirit . . . but you can't be RE-born or born AGAIN as Spirit until this birth sequence is OVER. There isn't a single scripture that supports this rebirth while in our physical bodies . . . they ALL talk about conception (being conceived, begotten) or being "born of God" (gennao).
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Here's another one. Romans6:5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his.
You actually believe your claimed intellectual "believe in" Him is equivalent to His death and resurrection (Rebirth as Spirit)???
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6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.
8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
This is all what our "embryo Spirits" must do to mature sufficiently to be reborn as Spirit upon our deaths. It is how we build on the foundation that Christ has laid for us ALL. We must "love God and each other."
Your blasphemous Church is in my prayers. Only the young could be so arrogant and presumptuous as to think they actually are Christ, the Son, the mediator, the eternal life, etc. because of what they believe . . . and that what they believe qualifies as the Word of God.
You actually believe your claimed intellectual "believe in" Him is equivalent to His death and resurrection (Rebirth as Spirit)???
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Your blasphemous Church is in my prayers. Only the young could be so arrogant and presumptuous as to think they actually are Christ, the Son, the mediator, the eternal life, etc. because of what they believe . . . and that what they believe qualifies as the Word of God.
Sorry, guess I was ignoring these facts because I got so engrossed in trying to understand. Yikes!
No. We are not remotely equal to Christ . . . and it is "believe ON" Him in a way that affects our daily lives and "fruits."
Tell me then what does Paul mean when he says, "for you are dead and your life is hid with Christ in God."?
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Feel free to stand before God and tell Him you are a god if you wish, Migol. I think I'l stick with telling Him I "love God and each other."
"I have said, ye are gods." John 10:34
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It is not hard to grasp because it is absurd . . .unless you really are "like the wind" and can flow wherever you wish.. When you are born of Spirit you are Spirit . . . but you can't be RE-born or born AGAIN as Spirit until this birth sequence is OVER. There isn't a single scripture that supports this rebirth while in our physical bodies . . . they ALL talk about conception (being conceived, begotten) or being "born of God" (gennao).
I've just quoted you a scripture that proves this.
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You actually believe your claimed intellectual "believe in" Him is equivalent to His death and resurrection (Rebirth as Spirit)??? This is all what our "embryo Spirits" must do to mature sufficiently to be reborn as Spirit upon our deaths. It is how we build on the foundation that Christ has laid for us ALL. We must "love God and each other."
Right, love God and each other... and I'm doing the best I can following that. But if this intellectual "belief in" Christ somehow doesn't suffice to being equivalent to His death then why does Paul say that I am dead and my life is hid with Christ in God.
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Your blasphemous Church is in my prayers. Only the young could be so arrogant and presumptuous as to think they actually are Christ, the Son, the mediator, the eternal life, etc. because of what they believe . . . and that what they believe qualifies as the Word of God.
I haven't actually gone to church in like 6 years. In fact, none of the churches I went to hardly ever spoke of this. It always revolved around Acts 2:38... but tell me, why is it so hard for you to accept what I'm saying when it's all based in Scripture? You say that I'm presumptuous to think I am Christ, the Son, the mediator, the eternal life... etc. Doesn't the Scriptures clearly declare us that we complete in the fulness of the Godhead bodily? Didn't the Lord say, "glorify your Son, that I may glorify you"? And doesn't Hebrew say that the same Lord has brought us all to that glory?
If the scriptures declare it, why is it presumptuous for me to say they do? To this point, you have not given me any scriptures at all. You have "ideals" and nothing more.
Comments like what Finn? That Pleroo hopes that what she is saying might have an impact in a positive way somehow? Yeah, wow that's really dangerous.
Could you be more blatant with your disdain towards Pleroo? Just saying......And what??? Are you saying there's no confusion, what with 30,000 different denominations and just the sheer number of different beliefs right here at C-D?? Why you gotta be so mean Finn?
We will meet many adversaries in this life, including Sibling Rivalry.
"A friend loves at all times; but a brother is born to share his adversity."
Comments like what Finn? That Pleroo hopes that what she is saying might have an impact in a positive way somehow? Yeah, wow that's really dangerous.
Obviously I am talking about the comments I was replying to, where she said Christians enjoy thinking about other people suffer. How is that going to have a positive impact?
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Could you be more blatant with your disdain towards Pleroo? Just saying......And what??? Are you saying there's no confusion, what with 30,000 different denominations and just the sheer number of different beliefs right here at C-D?? Why you gotta be so mean Finn?
The mean ones are the ones trying to smear other people with comments like that, and it was not me. And no, there are not 30 000 versions of what hades is.
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And pretty darn smart too.
Are you saying there's no confusion, what with 30,000 different denominations and just the sheer number of different beliefs right here at C-D?? Why you gotta be so mean Finn?
