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No one has answered the question, and you did not answer it with that post either. It cannot be answered by a UR, because the truth is that according to your beliefs you do not HAVE TO accept Christ in this life. You can reject God all your life, insult Him and call Him a "demon God" and tell God to go to hell, because when you die, you just take the 'pruning' and then go to heaven. No biggie. It is like speeding. You can choose to speed, and remind yourself that if you get caught, you just pay the fine, and keep going.
Observation says, this has been addressed on numerous occasions.
But you and others, continue to put it on the back burner until after the election or self-determination of men.
It's better to be safe, than sorry, right?
"To error is human, to forgive is divine; for what power has love, but forgiveness."
No one has answered the question, and you did not answer it with that post either. It cannot be answered by a UR, because the truth is that according to your beliefs you do not HAVE TO accept Christ in this life. You can reject God all your life, insult Him and call Him a "demon God" and tell God to go to hell, because when you die, you just take the 'pruning' and then go to heaven. No biggie. It is like speeding. You can choose to speed, and remind yourself that if you get caught, you just pay the fine, and keep going.
This is the clearest reveal of your vengeful heart, Finn. Reaping a consequence that is equal in effect to what we have sown is not enough "payment" for your vengeful heart. It is "no biggie." It must be permanent and eternal. You are not satisfied with reaping what we sow . . . you demand that we reap far MORE than we sow . . . an eternity in fact! You have finally revealed your true self, Finn.
When UR's describe God they ONLY describe our loving and just God. You describe a very different God that by all we have learned about evil . . . seems very evil. It is YOUR beliefs about God that are evil . . . NOT God. God is as we describe Him . . . Love.
This is the clearest reveal of your vengeful heart, Finn. Reaping a consequence that is equal in effect to what we have sown is not enough "payment" for your vengeful heart. It is "no biggie." It must be permanent and eternal. You are not satisfied with reaping what we sow . . . you demand that we reap far MORE than we sow . . . an eternity in fact! You have finally revealed your true self, Finn.When UR's describe God they ONLY describe our loving and just God. You describe a very different God that by all we have learned about evil . . . seems very evil. It is YOUR beliefs about God that are evil . . . NOT God. God is as we describe Him . . . Love.
It is not my demand, it is God's demand. I am not God, and I demand nothing.
No I know your position on the above hasn't changed, but your posts have. You're so mean-spirited these days and that's what I was talking about. I see a lot of condemnation and disdain towards others who don't agree with you and I see zero love in your words.
As you indicated, everything is perspective. You see condemnation and disdain now not because I moved, but you have. It's zeal for the truth .... "love must (not optional) be sincere; hate what is evil, love what is good."
I love the truth that :
God has not changed in John 3:36
God has not changed in Matthew 25:41-46
God has not changed in Galations 5:21
God has not changed in Mark 3:29
God has not changed the names written in the two sperate books in Rev 20:12
God has not changed from Genesis to Revelation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
The premise is that there is scriptural support for everything that UR teaches, you just interpret it differently.
Not to be argumentative ....it's more factual to say that there is only scriptural support because you just interpret it differently.
You're forgetting ...God hasn't changed. John 3:36, Matthew 25:41-46 ect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Yes, there are words that have been mistranslated and UR is about God's unconditional love for us by sending Jesus to die for everyone, but what's wrong with that, TS?
The only words that have been mistranslated are the wanton convenient "eternal" is combined when comparing heaven and \or with hell\fire\punishment ect.
I have yet read any howling about these verses when "eternal" is used in connection with God: for example:
God's "eternal" power ...Romans 1:20
God's "eternal" glory .... 1 Peter 5:10
God has given us "eternal" life... 1 John 5:11 (notice the past tense has given)
The "eternal" gospel to proclaim to every people .... Revelation 14:6
Yet "eternal" most certainly has to mean an "age" when needs to be:
Mark 3:29
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Matthew 18:8
...It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
No one is accusing God of anything, we see Him completely differently than you do. You see a God of wrath and hate, we see a God of love and that in no way is accusing God of anything. It's all how you choose to interpret scripture and view God. It is very untrue and unfair to say that we (UR's) are accusing God when that couldn't be further from the truth.
But you are accusing God. What you only want to see is in blue...me in black:
Matthew 25:46
“ [ forget the first part] ...... the righteous to eternal life.
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life,
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him.”
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
No one is mocking God or claiming He's sadistic, that's what the ET camp teaches, not UR. You're reading everything all wrong and your posts are filled with rants and hatred here lately and that can't be healthy for anyone.
I don't want to waist any more time finding the posts from certian individuals that said exactly that (God's sadistic) just to verify. Because :
it means nothing to those who swim together
they ignore \ blow it off it any
Just read Ironmaw
"Intelligent people are no more afraid of your twisted demon God than they are of Santa Claus ... I prefer Moloch to your eternally evil demon God, because at least Moloch only burns children alive until they are dead, while your demon God wants to burn most people alive for eternity! "
"open your eyes" Ilene with whom you're swimming with
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Where do UR's do this TS? Are you speaking of UR's or someone else? Christian Universalism uses the whole word of God, no one has broken scriptures and we always use the entire words of Jesus. This is just wrong.
I said: "When using the entire words of Jesus, the truth is that though God desires all 1 Timothy 2:4 ... few will Matthew 7:14.
There you go, saying that God can't or won't get what He desires. He can and will. And the "few" are the ones who God called in this life to be saved, nowhere does it speak of anyone suffering eternal consequences..
....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright
Yes, there is but again, no mention of an eternal punishment.
Do you ever listen to yourself.....
do we now have to have an explanation of the meaning of the "mention".......
Does Matthew 25:46 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Matthew 25:41 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Galatians 1:8-9 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Jude 1:7 classify as "mentioning" ...
---------- good grief Ilene, you're not Miss Teflon -------------
Last edited by twin.spin; 06-18-2011 at 02:32 PM..
Reason: spacing
It is not my demand, it is God's demand. I am not God, and I demand nothing.
No Finn . . . you reject what Christ has revealed as the TRUE NATURE of God in favor of the savage beliefs and descriptions of God of our ignorant ancient ancestors. There can be no compromise between the two divergent beliefs . . . but you insist on forcing them to fit together. YOU are calling God evil by attributing evil to Him as our ancestors did. We attribute no evil to God . . . only Love. It takes a real twisting to claim WE are attributing evil to God when OUR beliefs about God contain NO evil . . . but YOURS do.
No Finn . . . you reject what Christ has revealed as the TRUE NATURE of God in favor of the savage beliefs and descriptions of God of our ignorant ancient ancestors. There can be no compromise between the two divergent beliefs . . . but you insist on forcing them to fit together. YOU are calling God evil by attributing evil to Him as our ancestors did. We attribute no evil to God . . . only Love. It takes a real twisting to claim WE are attributing evil to God when OUR beliefs about God contain NO evil . . . but YOURS do.
I didn't say anything about you, or anyone else. I said I demand nothing. I don't see any connection between your post and my post, so I wonder why you typed it as a reply to my post.
As you indicated, everything is perspective. You see condemnation and disdain now not because I moved, but you have. It's zeal for the truth .... "love must (not optional) be sincere; hate what is evil, love what is good."
I love the truth that :
God has not changed in John 3:36
God has not changed in Matthew 25:41-46
God has not changed in Galations 5:21
God has not changed in Mark 3:29
God has not changed the names written in the two sperate books in Rev 20:12
God has not changed from Genesis to Revelation.
Not to be argumentative ....it's more factual to say that there is only scriptural support because you just interpret it differently.
You're forgetting ...God hasn't changed. John 3:36, Matthew 25:41-46 ect.
Just because I interpret differently than you do does not make me wrong or make you right. I haven't forgotten anything, I found out something and that's that God has always been the same God, I just had a skewed version of Him like all ETer's do.
Quote:
The only words that have been mistranslated are the wanton convenient "eternal" is combined when comparing heaven and \or with hell\fire\punishment ect.
I have yet read any howling about these verses when "eternal" is used in connection with God: for example:
God's "eternal" power ...Romans 1:20
God's "eternal" glory .... 1 Peter 5:10
God has given us "eternal" life... 1 John 5:11 (notice the past tense has given)
The "eternal" gospel to proclaim to every people .... Revelation 14:6
Yet "eternal" most certainly has to mean an "age" when needs to be:
Mark 3:29
"But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.”
Matthew 18:8
...It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Matthew 25:46
“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
It's not wanton, eternal HAS been translated incorrectly and that includes the verses you quoted. "Eternal" is wrong no matter how it is used.
Quote:
But you are accusing God. What you only want to see is in blue...me in black:
No I AM NOT! I don't agree with your version of God so you turn and twist it to say that UR's are accusing God of something and that it just a blatant lie.
Quote:
I don't want to waist any more time finding the posts from certian individuals that said exactly that (God's sadistic) just to verify. Because :
it means nothing to those who swim together
they ignore \ blow it off it any
Just read Ironmaw
"Intelligent people are no more afraid of your twisted demon God than they are of Santa Claus ... I prefer Moloch to your eternally evil demon God, because at least Moloch only burns children alive until they are dead, while your demon God wants to burn most people alive for eternity! "
"open your eyes" Ilene with whom you're swimming with
....
Oh good grief, Ironmaw is not accusing our God of anything, he simply rejects the one that you serve. So do I. It's no different than rejecting the Quran or Buddhism.
Quote:
Do you ever listen to yourself.....
do we now have to have an explanation of the meaning of the "mention".......
Does Matthew 25:46 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Matthew 25:41 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Galatians 1:8-9 classify as "mentioning" ...
Does Jude 1:7 classify as "mentioning" ...
Once again, mistranslation.
Quote:
---------- good grief Ilene, you're not Miss Teflon -------------
After following this thread from the start - my reaction
After following this thread from the start, here is my reaction.
Millions of Muslims believe that non Muslims will suffer forever in hell.
"Being a Muslim does not keep one out of Hell but non-Muslims (kafir), however, will be punished eternally." ISLAMIC BELIEFS ABOUT THE AFTERLIFE The Afterlife in Islam - ReligionFacts
Millions of Christians believe that non-Christians will suffer forever in hell.
On this thread I know that I don't need to guide readers to evidence that this is very true.
To the unbiased student of religions, the Muslim/Christian dichotomy must appear rediculously absurd!
Because of this dichotomy most of those students probably become agnostic or atheistic.
Personally, I suffered a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-78, I'm 72 now) over my inability to successfully emotionally cope with the idea that God would let anyone choose themselves into an inescapable state of everlasting suffering (Arminian), or deserve to suffer forever just by being born into the human race (Calvinist).
The reason that I am not locked away in a mental hospital right now is that I maintain a mental attitude that believers in eternal torment will remain believers in eternal torment for as long as God wants them to.
God needs them as vessels of the grossest dishonor, a foil of contrast against which He will demonstrate the power of His love that never fails and His undefeatable grace.
But after the resurrection God will refashion all believers in eternal torment into vessels of honor because they were marred in the Potter's hands and they never leave His hands.
I perceive the doctrine of eternal torment as part of the blackest of backgrounds against which God will paint His glorious masterpiece of universal transformation, using the paint brush of his undefeatable grace.
I am convinced that after believers in eternal torment have done their very best to convince others about what God will not do, I believe that God is going to do it anyway.
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This is really what you want to say too God, your Dad, family Ironmaw !! And to why you come here and vent..... such things upon other's !
Ilene with whom you're swimming with 
After following this thread from the start - my reaction
