Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I see this thread is looking like it is dying out. One thing I would like to point out to anyone who still checks it out is that I never said we don't have a choice and I never said that we are forced to choose what we might not want. Read it carefully and you will see I said it will be our choice and it will be from the heart. Bur God works in us and around us and changes our heart to match his heart,ALL OF US. If you think that is to hard for God to do you don't know him, but you will.
I see this thread is looking like it is dying out. One thing I would like to point out to anyone who still checks it out is that I never said we don't have a choice and I never said that we are forced to choose what we might not want. Read it carefully and you will see I said it will be our choice and it will be from the heart. Bur God works in us and around us and changes our heart to match his heart,ALL OF US. If you think that is to hard for God to do you don't know him, but you will.
So true ssschulz,and it's the very reason why we should see nothing other than God in a person,because God in that person is influencing and persuading the person by His own goodness patience and long suffering to the point that he cannot help but choose and put his faith in Christ.
For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.
Free will is in the pursuit of doing the will of the Father. Each person must find their own path to the Father and each person has the right to search for the point in which our will and God's will meet in the middle. Kind of like a bridge that connects the two. We are free to choose the path that is right for us as individuals.
2Pe_2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1Jn_2:22 Who is the liar, except the one denying, saying that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son.
1Jn_2:23 Everyone denying the Son does not have the Father. The one confessing the Son also has the Father.
Jud_1:4 For certain men stole in, those of old having been written before to this judgment, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God into unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe_2:1 But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and denying the Master who has bought them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.
1Jn_2:22 Who is the liar, except the one denying, saying that Jesus is not the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one denying the Father and the Son.
1Jn_2:23 Everyone denying the Son does not have the Father. The one confessing the Son also has the Father.
Jud_1:4 For certain men stole in, those of old having been written before to this judgment, ungodly ones perverting the grace of our God into unbridled lust, and denying the only Master, God, even our Lord Jesus Christ.
We are all aware of these things. We each have the free will choice to choose what is right for us as individuals. It doesn't ever matter what someone elses path is. What matter is the path that we are on as individuals. No one can tell us what path to take as our path is our own. We know there are false teachers. We know that people deceive us. BUT, it is up to us to discern what is true or false in our own way. Most fundamentalist will tell you that their way is the only way. I tell you, their way is not of love because they would force others to believe as they do. If they want followers, then they should lead a life of love and not threaten or condemn another because their path is different. Our life is our own and what we do with it is entirely up to the individual and we all will reap what we sow.
We are all aware of these things. We each have the free will choice to choose what is right for us as individuals. It doesn't ever matter what someone elses path is. What matter is the path that we are on as individuals. No one can tell us what path to take as our path is our own. We know there are false teachers. We know that people deceive us. BUT, it is up to us to discern what is true or false in our own way. Most fundamentalist will tell you that their way is the only way. I tell you, their way is not of love because they would force others to believe as they do. If they want followers, then they should lead a life of love and not threaten or condemn another because their path is different. Our life is our own and what we do with it is entirely up to the individual and we all will reap what we sow.
Oh...I feel so sorry for you..."I am the Truth and the Way"...I am sorry that you cannot grasp that...
Oh...I feel so sorry for you..."I am the Truth and the Way"...I am sorry that you cannot grasp that...
No, I feel sorry for you. The path we choose to follow is the path that is laid out for us that is understood at our spiritual root center. It does not mean we have to follow what everyone else believes. I believe Jesus is the way, the Truth and the Life. What I don't agree with is how you have interpreted it to mean. Jesus showed me that way and He said I should pray to our Father for His Love. He did not say "I demand that you pray to our Father for His love". See the difference? Even Jesus knew of free will. It's entirely up to the individual which path they choose. It can be laid out and interpreted in any way, but the path is our own to follow. So, I took the path Jesus laid out and guess what, God actually sent His Divine Love into my soul and His love has changed me and brought so much light into my soul that I can't even remember what it was like before. I receive more and more all the time. I took the Love that was offered and made it my own. Nothing can get better than that.
The sad part is, most fundies like to pray and worship but they refuse to ask God for something so simple as His Divine Love. Pity.
The idea of freewill is expressed in the Bible many places,the very beginning when God created Adam and Eve,they were free to enjoy a beautiful life thankful to their creator. We all owe the creator honor,glory, and praise because He created us and because of Him we exist Revelations 4:11. When Eve was decieved by the serpent, do to her freewill she chose to take from it. Did God stop her or allow her to make her choice, she was clear of the regulations in his Garden like every child in his parents house, even orphans in shelters are well aware of the rules, however she repeated back what God told her Genesis 3:4. She knew that if she touched it she would die and touched it, the Bible says whatever a man is sowing this he will reap so we have a choice of unadulterated pure worship to our creator or we can follow fleshly desires which lead to destruction we have free will in the matter and every action has a reaction Galatians 6:7.
could you have chosen to type or not type this message?
I know the question was to the OP, but I just want to say that every choice we make is affected by innumerable other events and actions that came before. So in that sense, we do not have free will. We do make choices sometimes, and those choices have consequences that can even prevent others from choosing what they might have preferred. So there is a great battle of wills going on in the earth. Even Jesus said he did not come to do his own will but the will of the Father in heaven.
I wanted to state my opinion on the Major difference between those who believe in ET and those who believe in UR. the first one is the translation of the word " Aion" some bibles translate it as eternal some translate it as age-during. Those who believe in ET say it is eternal and those who follow UR believe it means age-during, so either eternal torment or age-during chastisement. This debate will go on because it is a translation debate. I want to talk about the other, "free will."
First we need to define our terms. I think we all pretty much agree on what will is, it is our choice to choose what we want the most. The heart will always choose what it wants the most. Some time people will say that they made a choice they really did not want to make but that is not true. Oh they may have preferred that things were different so they had other choices to make but never doubt that they choose what their heart wanted the most deep down.
So the word we need to define now is the word "free" what does that mean. I have heard many people say that God gave man free will. Where in the bible does it say that? No one can show me a verse that says it, they say that it is implied. I disagree. One of the verses many people will point to is "
Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD. "
That shows that we have a choice to make and that is true. Every choice we make is our choice, but is it a "free" choice?
If by free you mean it is ours to make then we have free will according to that definition of "free". But if you mean without influence on our choices then we do not have "free" will, because every choice we make is influence by many factors.
The best definition I have ever heard of God's Grace was "divine influence on the heart." many people think that God's grace is just forgiveness of sin and that is part of it but there is much more to his Grace. If you forgave a thief for stealing but did nothing else and he kept stealing and you kept forgiving him he learns nothing except that it is ok to keep stealing, in fact he believes he has a right to steal. But if you forgive him but chastise him so he has a change of heart and no longer chooses to steal then you have influenced his heart and he chooses to quit stealing. was that "free will" or not.
That is how God shapes our will to his will by influencing our heart till we are in tune with Gods heart. Then we choose to follow God way because our hearts are in tune.
God is always in control. Many people say that but they don't really believe it. They think God set up the world and then lets events unfold as they will and we are in control of the aspects of our life that relate to what we choose to do. Remember that the clay( that's us) never leaves the Potter's (that's God) hands. He is always shaping us, some time is major ways but most time in small hardly noticed ways.
The bible tells us that God knows when a bird fall, and how many hairs are on our head. Why are these things in the bible? Because it shows that God knows everything because He is in controls every detail, even the hairs on out head. He saw the end before the beginning. That is how He knows what will happen because He set it up to happen that way before he even created the world. His plan is working out exactly as He designed it to be.
I did not come to this realization over night or easily. I too thought I had free will because it felt like I did, and I wanted to have free will so that I would be in charge of my fate. It was an " idol of my heart", it was my choice to choose what I believed or what I did. My heart believed that but my mind knew God had control so how do the two thing reconcile themselves to each other? I read peoples opinions and prayed about it and one day God opened my eyes and I finally understood. Everything is my choice to make and it always was and always will be ,but God influences my heart so that my choices will change until I am in tune with God and then his will, will be my will. (I am still under construction.) He knows exactly how to do this, in fact He has already seen what He will do and how I will respond because he has seen the end( and all points in between) before the world was created.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
When I put myself on the throne of my heart (the temple of God) and say that I am in control I exalt myself above God and I become the man of sin, the son of perdition.
They are my choices but "Thank God" they are not free from God's divine influences on my heart.
I want to point out that is says that He declares the end from the beginning, not that he saw the end from the beginning...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
