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Old 07-09-2011, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,434,005 times
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Thought I would ruffle up some feathers

Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ears....I have come to bury false pressuppositions regarding Jesus Christ. He came to save the remnant Israelites from the firery depths of the lake of fire in 70 AD. He did so and accomplished His task. Because of their salvation, and inheritance of the promise land 40 years after His death, the world now benefits from that consummation. What does this mean?

I reported, you decide. Salvation is OF the Jews.

Blessings to all.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:31 PM
 
5,187 posts, read 6,940,357 times
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I guess I am Jewish.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,434,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perry335654 View Post
I guess I am Jewish.
You mean Christian

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it].
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Jesus came to save Israel only
John 3:16 says otherwise.
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:19 PM
 
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Sure Jesus ministries in His three year ministries in went to the Jews to get them saved because He knew that they would all be lost because apostasy had came and changing belief would be a challenge that religion would not accept...., but Jesus did go to Sidon and Tyre of the country of Phoenicia and healed people ..... Jesus did preach to the Samaria woman at the well In John 4 and said to her. ``Go, call your husband and to come here``....and the woman said `I have no husband`... And Jesus said ``You has well said ,I have no husband`, for you have had five husband and he is now is not your husband in that said you truly``........ Who is the five husband and the husband she said is not her husband? the five husband were baal god..were they worshiped on the mountain....... the husband that is not here husband is the Lord God who the Jews demanded that they worship in Jerusalem only........ Then Jesus to this gentile Samaria ``Woman, believe me, the hour comes when You will neither worship in this mountain , nor yet at Jerusalem, Worship the Father.....You worship you know not what...we know what we worship for salvation is of the Jews...... But the Hour comes and is when the true worshiper will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father seeks such to worship him.....God is Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth``............See during Jesus days he told the gentile woman that the Jews worship would come to an end and God spirit would bring a new worship to her and others
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:57 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
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As I understood it the Jews were to be first, but Jesus did talk with the Gentile centurion and missions among the Gentiles started right away.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Southern Minnesota
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Jesus came to save ALL humanity. Jews, Arabs, Blacks, Whites, Asians, Canadians, Mexicans, South Sudanese, Americans, Vietnamese, Tongans . . . . . EVERYONE. Salvation is "of the Jews" only in the sense that Jesus -- while He was on earth -- was a Jewish man. It doesn't mean that only Jews can be saved.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,029,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Thought I would ruffle up some feathers

Friends, romans, countrymen, lend me your ears....I have come to bury false pressuppositions regarding Jesus Christ. He came to save the remnant Israelites from the firery depths of the lake of fire in 70 AD. He did so and accomplished His task. Because of their salvation, and inheritance of the promise land 40 years after His death, the world now benefits from that consummation. What does this mean?

I reported, you decide. Salvation is OF the Jews.

Blessings to all.
EVERYONE will eventually be Israelites.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,434,005 times
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Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
John 3:16 says otherwise.
What is the context of John 3?

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews...

And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

Christ came to disannul this covenant with death. That covenant was with Israel.
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Old 07-10-2011, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,303 posts, read 6,434,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
EVERYONE will eventually be Israelites.
trettep,

I believe you may be missing something very important here. Read Romans 8:

Rom 8:18-23 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us [first-fruits]. For the earnest expectation of the creature [Israel] waiteth for the manifestation [in election] of the sons of God [the first-fruits]. For the creature [Israel] was made subject to vanity [the Law], not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope [new covenant resurrection], because the creature itself [Israel herself] also shall be delivered [redeemed] from the bondage of corruption [the old covenant] into the glorious liberty [the new covenant] of the children of God [the first-fruits]. For we know that the whole creation [humanity] groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they [Israel-Humanity], but ourselves [the first-fruits] also, which have the firstfruits [down payment] of the [eschatological] Spirit, even we ourselves [the first-fruits] groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body

Jesus was God's redemptive agent of and for His people Israel. Jesus was THEIR Messiah, thus ALL Israel, from God's perspective, were in Christ. Israel was God's chosen "vine" [Isa 5:7] – Jesus prophetically, redemptively and eschatologically was "the true vine" [Jn 15:1]; therefore Jesus was True Israel, fulfilling in himself Israel's divine mandate [Isa 49:3]. Jesus was THE ELECT [Messiah] of the elect [Israel] [Isa 49:8-9]. Jesus WAS Israel's redeeming Messiah [Mt 1:21; Lk 1:68], thus ALL Israel was IN Christ, and in the Parousia ALL were delivered from the "ungodliness of Jacob" having finally had their "sins taken away" and so ALL Israel was set free [Rom 11:26-27]. It was to ALL Israel that the prophetic promise was made of a new covenant [Jer 31:31-34], and this redemptive promise of restoration WAS the "hope of Israel" i.e., her resurrection [Eze 37:1-14; Act 23:6; 24:15; 26:6-8]. It was THIS promise that Yahweh would make good through the remnant elect on behalf of the greater whole. The first-fruit believers of the AD30-70 transitional period were the ones separated and dedicated [sanctified] by and to God as the first-fruits offering of the greater gathering harvest of all Israel at "the fullness of the times" Eph 1:10.

Though rebellious enemies of the gospel, historic Israel were nonetheless elect and beloved on account of God's promises to the patriarchs, and ultimately in the mercy of God, accepted and redeemed:

Rom 11:15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
Or to paraphrase it: "For if Israel's temporal hardening brings the reconciling of the world, what will Israel's acceptance by God be but resurrection life?"

And this is the crux of the matter – the fulfillment of Israel's redemption brought about the world's reconciliation. And "world" in this context clearly DOES extend beyond the limits and borders of historic Israel. Paul's "all Israel" is corporately inclusive and so likewise Paul's "the world". Thus by virtue of Israel's redemption we have all humanity in Christ, or as Paul states: "…God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, NOT imputing their trespasses to them…" 2 Cor 5:19.

Those who seek to read Paul's "all Israel" as "the church only" plainly ignore the context made clear in Rom 10:1; 11:1, 14, 28 and can only do so by reading into the text this bifurcation and could do well to consider the following:

When Paul and others spoke in terms of NOT ALL Israel being "Israel", "Jews" or "God's children" [Rom 2:28-29; 9:6, 8; Rev 3:9] they were delineating the fact that historic Israel was not, and had not for some time, lived in accordance with her holy vocation and calling as Yahweh's priests to the world, i.e., being God's light to the Gentiles, as was their mandate as kingdom priests [Ex 19:5-6; Isa 42:1, 6; 43:10; 49:3-6; Zech 3:8]. It was THIS kingdom mandate – the authority as witnesses to God, that was stripped from old covenant historic Israel and given through Christ to the nation producing its fruits [Mt 21:43-45] i.e., new covenant or true Israel, also known as "the Israel of God" [Gal 6:16]; none other than the 'Body of Christ' – the branches of the Vine. Historic Israel through her self-centred and self-righteous exclusiveness abdicated her God-given role as God's redemptive handiwork in the earth – it was THIS mandate and THIS role that those "this generation" first-fruit saints of faith inherited, in other words – THEY received and entered into the inheritance of kingdom rule and life [Rom 5:17].

Further, in the context then of the first-fruit believers those who Paul specifically speaks of as "in Christ" were those of faith, called as priests unto God, brethren of Christ – those who are saved to serve.

Essentially then, "the world" has been brought into Israel "in Christ" [Eph 2:11-13]; "believers" are His priesthood [1 Pet 2:9-10] to minister within Israel i.e., to "the world" His blessing and Presence – thus the 'fellowship of followers' are as the New Jerusalem in the new creation in this ageless age of righteousness [2 Pet 3:13]. Active faith then is the key to THE CALL, not the key to Heaven – "getting to heaven" was never the issue, but coming into the covenant call of priestly service.
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