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Old 07-22-2011, 03:38 PM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,022,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
That's a cop out and you know it, and cursing using "God" IS USING God's name in vain. Your response does not make any sense and it wasn't directed at you anyway.
It is not a cop out...and YOU know it...God is a title, not his Name...If you'd study a little you would know this...
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Old 07-22-2011, 03:53 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,619,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
It is not a cop out...and YOU know it...God is a title, not his Name...If you'd study a little you would know this...
Yes it IS a cop out, you're saying it's okay to say GD and it's not. I don't care if it's his name or a "title"........when using "God" in vain it is purely disrespectful and like a slap in the face to God. People do it for shock value but its all I can do to keep from slapping someone who says it. I don't like it, and you shouldn't either if you're a Christian.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,524,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
If that were the case it is worded wrong... and this IS eternal life: to know god and the one he sent... If you know Christ you do what? Follow the commands which are to love God and each other... Therefore to have eternal life is to love.


There is no such thing as life without end. We all die. Even Christ died.


1 Cor 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.

That verse is from an explanation by Paul about eternal life, in answer to a question about how a man is raised up from the dead and about what body he comes with.

He follows that verse by explaining something from agriculture: A seed must die for a living plant to spring up. It's the same with us. The "earthy" man must die for the spiritual man to be born.

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

You really don't understand what Christ did on the cross, do you?
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,524,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Think deeper...How could God know who will respond and who will not?...Read Romans deeply...The answers are there...And the words Elect and Chosen and Predestined are in the Bible...So, that means that someone is passed over...Look up those words for their meaning...also the Greek of those words...Here is a question...If you look in the OT you see many people that, in God's view, were upright and walked in righteousness...Now, If that is the case, then it IS possible to walk righteously and please God, having faith in Him without Faith in Christ...So, why did Christ have to come here and die on the Cross?...If it were always possible to walk righteously in the sight of God?...And why did Christ say that He only came for the Lost Sheep of The House of Israel?...
God knows who will be saved and who will not because he's God. He knows everything, at any time, simultaneously because he's not bound by linear time as we are.

If only a few are chosen for salvation, why then did the Lord give us the Great Commission?

In every case I can think of, people spoken of a righteous or walking uprightly in the OT were deemed so because of their faith, not because of their works. Like Abraham, their faith was counted unto them as righteousness. The idea of imputed righteousness did not originate in the NT, but has been a common theme since the Garden of Eden.

And, yes, Jesus came to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, but they were never intended to understand the Gospel message, for the most part. Remember, He spoke to them in parables so they wouldn't understand, to fulfill the prophesies of Esaias (Matt 13:11) and to open the door for the salvation of the Gentiles. Some were given to understand, but most were not.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:23 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,022,147 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Yes it IS a cop out, you're saying it's okay to say GD and it's not. I don't care if it's his name or a "title"........when using "God" in vain it is purely disrespectful and like a slap in the face to God. People do it for shock value but its all I can do to keep from slapping someone who says it. I don't like it, and you shouldn't either if you're a Christian.
why don't you tell me what 'in vain' means...
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:00 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,022,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
God knows who will be saved and who will not because he's God. He knows everything, at any time, simultaneously because he's not bound by linear time as we are.

If only a few are chosen for salvation, why then did the Lord give us the Great Commission?

In every case I can think of, people spoken of a righteous or walking uprightly in the OT were deemed so because of their faith, not because of their works. Like Abraham, their faith was counted unto them as righteousness. The idea of imputed righteousness did not originate in the NT, but has been a common theme since the Garden of Eden.

And, yes, Jesus came to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, but they were never intended to understand the Gospel message, for the most part. Remember, He spoke to them in parables so they wouldn't understand, to fulfill the prophesies of Esaias (Matt 13:11) and to open the door for the salvation of the Gentiles. Some were given to understand, but most were not.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

I see that God has a specific plan, not a general plan of Salvation...These are only a few of many verses that imply that God controls everything down to the minutest detail, that everything transpires according to His will and His counsel...We know not whom God has Chosen, so for us linear people, we must go out and witness...For the Gospel of Christ will either Save or Condemn...The Words of god will not return to Him void...We are merely vehicles for god's Great Design, used to accomplish whatsoever He desires...They will accomplish their purpose that God sent them out for according to His will and counsel...The Holy Spirit is like the wind...

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (the Greek verb here is 'having been fitted')
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

What do think Paul is talking about here?....Ecery little detail is taken care of by God...Nothing is left to Chance...

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen...
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Old 07-23-2011, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 10,524,313 times
Reputation: 1739
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That verse is from an explanation by Paul about eternal life, in answer to a question about how a man is raised up from the dead and about what body he comes with.

He follows that verse by explaining something from agriculture: A seed must die for a living plant to spring up. It's the same with us. The "earthy" man must die for the spiritual man to be born.

1Cr 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?

You really don't understand what Christ did on the cross, do you?
Truly.... What Christ did was simple. He taught a culture who felt they had to sacrifice animals on an altar to appease an angry god how to love each other to appease that god instead. It was a revolution to them, and had nothing whatsoever to do with any afterlife.

Anyway... We will have to agree to disagree.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,524,353 times
Reputation: 7807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

I see that God has a specific plan, not a general plan of Salvation...These are only a few of many verses that imply that God controls everything down to the minutest detail, that everything transpires according to His will and His counsel...We know not whom God has Chosen, so for us linear people, we must go out and witness...For the Gospel of Christ will either Save or Condemn...The Words of god will not return to Him void...We are merely vehicles for god's Great Design, used to accomplish whatsoever He desires...They will accomplish their purpose that God sent them out for according to His will and counsel...The Holy Spirit is like the wind...

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 9:9 For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son.
Rom 9:10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;
Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth Rom 9:12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.
Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: (the Greek verb here is 'having been fitted')
Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

What do think Paul is talking about here?....Ecery little detail is taken care of by God...Nothing is left to Chance...

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen...

That verse there at the end comes from the parable of the wedding. As you will recall, the guests were invited, but refused to attend for one reason or the other, so the feast was thrown open to anyone who would come. That's a parable about the Jews rejection of Christ, and the subsequent taking of the Gospel to the Gentiles. The setting of a wedding speaks to the marriage of the Lamb to his bride, the Church.

Note that man cast out of the wedding party had not properly attired himself. He wanted to come to the ceremony, but had not prepared himself to do so. He just sort of walked in, still in his street clothes. Since he was the only one rejected, it must be assumed that the others had properly attired themselves and were allowed to remain.

At a traditional Jewish wedding, the groom and his groomsmen wear the kittel, a long, white robe which also serves as a burial shroud. It's use is linked to that latter use and to the verse in Isa 1:18, "our sins shall be made as white as snow."

Now, look at the marriage supper of the Lamb in Rev. 19. How are those who come attired?

vs 8: And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

And why will the bride (us, the Church) be granted the right to wear our proper garments?

vs. 7: His wife has made herself ready.

See? The man who was rejected in the parable had not made himself ready! He just wanted to come without having done anything to prepare! It's not that he wasn't chosen, but that HE chose not to do what was necessary to be accepted! Matt 7: 20-22 illustrates this point very well. Those who come to the wedding unprepared (ie: without a saving faith in Christ) will be rejected.

As for the rest of it? I will not dispute words with Calvinism because that can go on all day and Paul warned us not to do that.

However, I will say this: I reject the doctrine of predestination simply because it must be grounded on the idea that man has literally no free will, that he can do nothing on his own, that God controls his every action, that He directs everything people do. That necessarily must lead to the conclusion that God causes us to sin, rather than just allows us to sin, and that's so contrary to the revelation of God found throughout the Bible that it doesn't bear arguing about.

Last edited by stillkit; 07-23-2011 at 09:50 AM..
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,076 posts, read 20,524,353 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Truly.... What Christ did was simple. He taught a culture who felt they had to sacrifice animals on an altar to appease an angry god how to love each other to appease that god instead. It was a revolution to them, and had nothing whatsoever to do with any afterlife.

Anyway... We will have to agree to disagree.
So, He wasn't raised from death on the third day, gaining an eternal victory over death and living forever?
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:38 AM
 
15,706 posts, read 11,770,017 times
Reputation: 7020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Yes it IS a cop out, you're saying it's okay to say GD and it's not. I don't care if it's his name or a "title"........when using "God" in vain it is purely disrespectful and like a slap in the face to God. People do it for shock value but its all I can do to keep from slapping someone who says it. I don't like it, and you shouldn't either if you're a Christian.
Actually, the prohibition is strictly on using God's name frivolously during oath-taking. "In vain" in Hebrew means, in falsehood.
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