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What you said in your first paragraph is so true!!! I couldn't agree more. But then you completely blow it by discrediting one of God's chosen apostles and tell people not to read Paul's writings.
I say this will all sincerity and due respect. If you had a better understanding of exactly what Paul is saying, you wouldn't be telling anyone to not read Paul's writings. Honestly, when I think of you feeling this way about Paul, I could literally cry. I wish there was something I could do to get you to change the way you think about this wonderful man of God who contributed so much to the growth of christianity.
Is there anything I can do to help?
SIGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Katie
Elohim has already proven to me that Paul is a false Apostle. That's a fact. But thanks Katie.
Elohim has already proven to me that Paul is a false Apostle. That's a fact. But thanks Katie.
So the guy that Jesus himself called to action, is a false apostle?
You can't trust anyone. I'm afraid could not disagree more. Of all the people in the bible, other than Jesus I'd like to spend a day with, it would be Paul.
Okay, to everyone who believes in Justification By Faith Only:
Can we be saved without repentance?
Can we be saved without prayer?
Can we be saved without love?
If the answere to these is "no", then that's that.
Some on this forum will answer yes.
I showed by example with the story of Jonah that repentance is WORKS (Jonah 3:10)
And no one, NO ONE is saved without repentance.
Faith, repentance, love, prayer, confessing Jesus is Lord with your mouth, immersion are all WORKS ordained by God. These are works the Father WILLS us to do.
The problem I am seeing is that some do not have an understanding of "apart from works." They include the commandments of Jesus in that little phrase and take that to mean it is not necessary to obey the commands of our Lord and Savior.
If you buy into the "faith alone saves" doctrine, then the majority of Americans are saved because they believe. Yet the scriptures teach, "few there be that find it." Jesus told us that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom, but only those who DO THE WILL of My Father. Yet the "faith alone" proponents will tell you that obeying the commands of Jesus are works and they do not save. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. He says why call me Lord and not do what I say.
Believe James when he says:
Faith Alone is Dead Faith. Faith alone is USELESS!
I showed by example with the story of Jonah that repentance is WORKS (Jonah 3:10)
And no one, NO ONE is saved without repentance.
Faith, repentance, love, prayer, confessing Jesus is Lord with your mouth, immersion are all WORKS ordained by God. These are works the Father WILLS us to do.
The problem I am seeing is that some do not have an understanding of "apart from works." They include the commandments of Jesus in that little phrase and take that to mean it is not necessary to obey the commands of our Lord and Savior.
If you buy into the "faith alone saves" doctrine, then the majority of Americans are saved because they believe. Yet the scriptures teach, "few there be that find it." Jesus told us that not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom, but only those who DO THE WILL of My Father. Yet the "faith alone" proponents will tell you that obeying the commands of Jesus are works and they do not save. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. He says why call me Lord and not do what I say.
Believe James when he says:
Faith Alone is Dead Faith. Faith alone is USELESS!
Katie
Forgive me if I'm wrong...
I think what you're trying to get at in this thread, is that "just believing" isn't very Christ-like. After all, Jesus came to give Himself a ransom, the just for the unjust, to bring us to God.
Many Christians today would NEVER give their lives for the lost. They're only interested in their own ticket to ride, so to speak.
And the attitude of "I'm saved, you better be too, or tough luck!!" is not Christ-like at all.
So, in a sense, there is much selfishness in modern Christianity. And my hunch is, that it's completely different than that of believers back in Jesus' time. Even the cultural norms were different (and still are, in that region of the world).
Sometimes we think we know everything, when what we need is to learn from others and learn to listen rather than talk.
I think what you're trying to get at in this thread, is that "just believing" isn't very Christ-like. After all, Jesus came to give Himself a ransom, the just for the unjust, to bring us to God.
Many Christians today would NEVER give their lives for the lost. They're only interested in their own ticket to ride, so to speak.
And the attitude of "I'm saved, you better be too, or tough luck!!" is not Christ-like at all.
So, in a sense, there is much selfishness in modern Christianity. And my hunch is, that it's completely different than that of believers back in Jesus' time. Even the cultural norms were different (and still are, in that region of the world).
Sometimes we think we know everything, when what we need is to learn from others and learn to listen rather than talk.
Imo, of course..
Blessings!
brian
That was incredibly tactful. Tact is an art. well done.
In response, I know nothing other than what the bible teaches. Without the bible, I'm a spiritual moron. its pretty clear--the bible. God is not the author of confusion. we are. We are when we lean on our own understanding instead and tell other what we "Think" is the right way.
Go to the Scriptures.
I'm not being selfish i don't think... And I sure as skippy am not just interested in my own ticket to ride. I'm on this forum for that one person. And Probably not anyone that's already on here responding. I'm on here for the one person in the future that might read this forum just for information and see my posts and actually Go To The Scriptures and test all our posts to see what is Right.
Don't believe me. Don't believe anyone!
Believe the bible.
If I quote a scripture and then type a comment about that scripture--- look it up. Read it. see if what makes sense to you is what you believe.
Don't be afraid to be wrong. I"ve been wrong before. But i want to go to Heaven more than i want to be prideful.
That was incredibly tactful. Tact is an art. well done.
In response, I know nothing other than what the bible teaches. Without the bible, I'm a spiritual moron. its pretty clear--the bible. God is not the author of confusion. we are. We are when we lean on our own understanding instead and tell other what we "Think" is the right way.
Go to the Scriptures.
I'm not being selfish i don't think... And I sure as skippy am not just interested in my own ticket to ride. I'm on this forum for that one person. And Probably not anyone that's already on here responding. I'm on here for the one person in the future that might read this forum just for information and see my posts and actually Go To The Scriptures and test all our posts to see what is Right.
Don't believe me. Don't believe anyone!
Believe the bible.
If I quote a scripture and then type a comment about that scripture--- look it up. Read it. see if what makes sense to you is what you believe.
Don't be afraid to be wrong. I"ve been wrong before. But i want to go to Heaven more than i want to be prideful.
You're not a moron at all. God gave you a new heart and I believe that's where He speaks to us.
Of course, we need to discern whether what we hear in our hearts is scriptural or not. But it's not impossible. On the contrary. It's very learnable.
For example: when my wife criticized me the other day, the first response was to argue. But in my heart I know that God calls us to peace; and that it's better to suffer than to cause suffering. So I learned that when criticized, it's better to not argue, but to allow it. (And if possible, learn from it, too! )
Day by day, we must all learn to listen to the Anointing within us. We all make mistakes, no one is perfect (yet). But we're getting there, and the Bible can certainly help point us in the right direction.
But at some point, the Bible (our schoolmaster) will reach its limit, and we need to learn to discern the Spirit and hear His Voice, if we want to move on in Him. Learning to "follow the Cloud in the desert." That's where Life REALLY begins!
Yet many Christians (even here on this sub-forum) don't want to listen to His Voice. Some don't even believe He has a voice!!
Blessings brother,
brian
PS: I'm not saying to "stop" reading the Bible. I'm saying that knowing the Bible inside and out is not the same as learning to discern His Voice within us day by day. The one cannot replace the other.
This is why Jesus says that He will tell many, "I never knew you." Knowing the Bible is NOT knowing Christ within.
Last edited by ahigherway; 10-17-2011 at 08:49 AM..
I'm saying that knowing the Bible inside and out is not the same as learning to discern His Voice within us day by day. The one cannot replace the other.
This is why Jesus says that He will tell many, "I never knew you." Knowing the Bible is NOT knowing Christ within.
If i understand what you are saying here, and i think i do, it jives with something i'm always telling my teen class.
You read the bible to know God. know who he is.
for example. My father never told me everything that i MUST DO or MUST NOT DO. He told me some things. TO DO and NOT TO DO. Mostly the important stuff. But He left somethings to me, if for no other reason than the limitation of his memory and experiences.
God tells us things TO DO and NOT TO DO. But He doesn't list every little thing we must do and not do. If we KNOW God, we'll be much better equipped to know what to do when faced with trials.
I knew the first time i smoked a cigarette (don't ever start doing that, kids) I knew my dad would be so mad and disappointed in me. He never told me not to smoke. He probably figured i wasn't stupid enough to ever start. wrong. He was 14 hours away from me when i started smoking and I still had guilt. But i know he'd be mad and disappointed, because i understood who he was and the kind of things he expects out of me.
God is the same way. We aren't always gonna have a bible we can search through as life throws stuff at us, but we can draw from the knowledge we gain from a study of it.
And If we want to Know the God of the Bible, We have to read the Bible of God.
If i understand what you are saying here, and i think i do, it jives with something i'm always telling my teen class.
You read the bible to know God. know who he is.
for example. My father never told me everything that i MUST DO or MUST NOT DO. He told me some things. TO DO and NOT TO DO. Mostly the important stuff. But He left somethings to me, if for no other reason than the limitation of his memory and experiences.
God tells us things TO DO and NOT TO DO. But He doesn't list every little thing we must do and not do. If we KNOW God, we'll be much better equipped to know what to do when faced with trials.
I knew the first time i smoked a cigarette (don't ever start doing that, kids) I knew my dad would be so mad and disappointed in me. He never told me not to smoke. He probably figured i wasn't stupid enough to ever start. wrong. He was 14 hours away from me when i started smoking and I still had guilt. But i know he'd be mad and disappointed, because i understood who he was and the kind of things he expects out of me.
God is the same way. We aren't always gonna have a bible we can search through as life throws stuff at us, but we can draw from the knowledge we gain from a study of it.
And If we want to Know the God of the Bible, We have to read the Bible of God.
Jesus was quoted as saying, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God."
Personally, I think there is a deeper meaning to this declaration. I don't believe Jesus was talking about literal bread. I think He was referring to the bread of what has been written. Jesus had meat to eat that the disciples were not aware of. He said that HE was/is the bread of life. I think that's because He could hear the Voice of God daily, with NEW things to tell.
So we rely on what Jesus taught, and also every new word that is spoken to us from the Father. The Anointing (Christ) is alive in our hearts, and has much to say to us. Sometimes we aren't ready to hear what He has to say, but being alive means being in relationship with Him.
That's why I consider the Bible "old manna." The laws and dictates of yesterday, although true, cannot give life. The Israelites had to have (spiritual) bread fresh every day from the Father, because He is alive, and willing to speak with us. In fact, just as Jesus heard and spoke what the Father told Him, so too, we Christians ought to be learning to hear His Voice in the same way, and to speak what we are hearing.
The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
A parrot can be taught to say many things. But that doesn't mean that he understands the words, or the importance of the sentence. We humans are the same way.
I've had people speak words to me, and I felt the Lord was speaking directly to me! Even reading scripture, sometimes I've felt that the Lord was telling me something.
But when you're out on the street, and a thought or a word comes to mind that is in line with scripture, then you know you're being spoken to. (That doesn't mean that we always understand the meaning..)
And of course, there is persecution awaiting those who are hearing the Voice of God, and that persecution will come from those who hold to the letter more than the Spirit.
Rambling a bit..
Blessings,
brian
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