Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I believe the following proves that salvation is not limited to this life time.
God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like. Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia, (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14), and Saul of Tarsus.
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
None of those scriptures speak directly to salvation after death. Luke 16 does though. Check it out.
The same God Who fixed the great gulf will remove it in due time
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
None of those scriptures speak directly to salvation after death. Luke 16 does though. Check it out.
The same God Who fixed the great gulf will remove it in due time.
We can be sure of this because God will have (wants if you like) all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4)
It is God’s “pleasure” that all mankind be saved.
And “God is operating all in accord with the counsel of His will” (Ephesians 1:11).
Change it to read “in accord with the counsel of what He wants if you like. Because God says
"My counsel shall stand. I will do all my pleasure
(the saving of all mankind is part of the pleasure that God wants)
Yea I have spoken it.
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it.
I will also do it."
Isaiah 46:10,11
Job 23:13 “But he stands alone, and who can oppose Him? He does whatever he pleases.
(the saving of all mankind is part of what He wants that pleases Him).
Isaiah 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
(the saving of all mankind is part of all of which God desires or wants)
So we see God does all His pleasure, He does whatever He pleases, and His word accomplishes that which He desires.
His pleasure, that which He desires and pleases Him is what He wants.
His will = What He wants
What does He want?
THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND
Why will it happen? Because God Himself will see to it that it gets done.
Any cooperation towards our salvation is the result, not the cause of God laying hold on us by His saving grace and causing Jesus to be "choice" in our heart, just like it was in the case of Lydia, (whose heart the Lord opened, Acts 16:14), and Saul of Tarsus.
The opinions of exactly how God will achieve universal salvation may differ from UR to UR just like, as Bright Hope pointed out, the opinions of ETers also vary from person to person about what the Bible teaches about salvation.
The same God Who fixed the great gulf will remove it in due time.
None of the scriptures you posted say that, do they Rodger? So, where do you get the idea that God will bridge the chasm? He never says He will do that, does He? He says just the opposite. There is no scriptural basis for any of the things you say. You resort to changed translations to make your point. My friend, you are wrong, and scripture proves it.
“My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars”
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to suffer forever. I'm 73 years old now.
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve. AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
Everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches. I post on forums to give people an alternate point of view. Had I known that one existed I never would have had a horrific twelve year nervous breakdown 1966-78 over my inability to love a god who would allow anyone to suffer forever. I'm 73 years old now.
THE FOLLOWING HAS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE TRUE REGARDING THE DEBATE ABOUT ETERNAL TORMENT
The argument about “eternal hell” nearly always gets bogged down with the words, “My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars” and the result is nearly always a stalemate.
My Greek scholars are Louis Abbott and the many Greek scholars he quotes in chapters three and twelve. AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words
If you think it glorifies God more to let some of His creatures suffer forever, or annihilate them, then you keep believing that.
But if you think it glorifies God more to eventually meet everyone on the level of their greatest and deepest need which is a change in their stubborn will, then know that there is plenty of evidence in the Bible that is exactly what God is like.
Fifteen literally translated (not interpretively translated) Bibles that reveal what God will do with the sinners in Matthew 25:46
Concordant Literal, Young’s literal, Wilson’s Emphatic Diaglott, Rotherham’s Emphasized, Scarlett’s,
J.W. Hanson’s New Covenant, Twentieth Century, Ferrar Fenton, The Western New Testament, Weymouth’s (unedited), Clementson’s, The New Testament of our Lord and Savior Jesus Anointed,
The Restoration of Original Sacred Name Bible, Bullinger’s Companion Bible margins, Jonathan Mitchell’s translation (2010).
Greek scholar William Barclay wrote concerning kolasis aionion (age-during corrective chastisement) in Matthew 25:46
"The Greek word for punishment is kolasis. There is no instance in Greek secular literature where kolasis does not mean remedial punishment. It is a simple fact that in Greek kolasis always means remedial punishment. God's punishment is always for man's cure."
See what other Greek scholars say about it too.
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS Chapter Eleven
Regarding the meaning of aionios, many Greek scholars agree with John Wesley Hanson.
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS AIN -- AINIOS
“Who could have peace in the Christian hope while overwhelmed with the consciousness that many of those dearest to us are even right now shrieking hopelessly for watery relief from fiery torments? If any can be happy under such a burden of woe, are they hardened to insensibility; or do they really take their creed seriously?
Do believers in eternal hell torment really believe it, in their careless unconcern for the unsaved, or do they just give formal and thoughtless assent to their creeds. A sincere contemplation of such an infinite spectacle of woe as they present about hell is enough to unseat the reason of every believer of it if it weighs on his mind as it should if true. It would be appalling to know the number of all those who thought they had committed ‘the unpardonable sin,’ another erroneous tradition, and that they were hopelessly hell-bound because of it, and as a result became maniacs and suicides.
Yet in utter disregard of the frightful results of their hideous pagan ideas, the eternal hell torment evangelists would like to unchristianize those of us who dare to question their views by turning the searchlight of truth on their errors.
After hell is ended in the lake of fire, where can the previous inhabitants of hell go? Not back to hell, for it then will be no more. Not back into death, for ‘there shall be no more death.’ Only one destiny will be possible for them, and that is the one declared in Is. 26:9, and that is correction through judgment.”
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
well, that's how the interpreters translated that passage. But go to an interlinear Bible and see what the actual Greek words were and underneath you will see it translated this way:
who yet ever should be blaspheming into the spirit the holy not is having pardon (from letting) into the eon but liable is of eonian judging.
yes There's that that word aion in the noun form first = the eon- and the adjective form second -- eonian judging.
WHAT?!?! They took Into the Eon and made it say ... what? never???? Is that good translating? They had not before the having pardon but it doesn't say NEVER, it says into the eon. It seems to me they did this to shore up their INTERPRETATION of the gospel message. This does seem like bias to me.
The saddest truth of all is that ET was designed to motivate the savage and barbarous minds of our ancient ancestors for whom the consequences were not truly imagined or fully understood. Continued belief in it means that savagery and barbarity are not yet removed from the minds of humans. No truly loving and caring human being could possibly abide the concept of a purposeless eternal torment in ANY of its versions. It is the anti-thesis of love.
Well, that's how the interpreters translated that passage. But go to an interlinear Bible and see what the actual Greek words were and underneath you will see it translated this way:
who yet ever should be blaspheming into the spirit the holy not is having pardon (from letting) into the eon but liable is of eonian judging.
Yes There's that word aion in the noun form first = the eon - and the adjective form second -- eonian judging.
WHAT?!?! They took Into the Eon and made it say ... what? never???? Is that good translating? They had not before the having pardon but it doesn't say NEVER, it says into the eon. It seems to me they did this to shore up their INTERPRETATION of the gospel message. This does seem like bias to me.
It seems like bias to me too.
Thanks for sharing that observation Scarlet Wren.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The same God Who fixed the great gulf will remove it in due time
“My Greek scholars are more reliable than your Greek scholars”
Consequenses of the doctrine of eternal torment
Thanks for that observation Scarlet Wren
