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Right... Choose. You have no idea that the serpent is evil. You don't even know the difference between what's good and what's evil. You don't know what a lie is. You know nothing of deception. Does godhood sound nice? Sure.
Who says Adam did not have any idea of good and evil? Your simply reading more into the story then the story says.
Is not one of the first things we teach our kids the difference between good and bad behaviour? What makes you think the voice of God would leave Adam in the dark concerning this?
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So why do you think God allowed Satan to tempt them? It would have been a whole lot easier to obey if God had just told them not to eat the forbidden fruit and left it at that. They would still have had their free will.
God tests us according to scripture to see if we will obey His voice or not, the reason people cannot grasp this is because they think God already knows whether we will obey His voice or not before we were ever born.
So, you believe that they already had the knowledge of good and evil before they ate of the tree in the story????
I believe they were learning the difference between good and evil.
The stroy of Adam and Eve is our story, we are right now in the place Adam and Eve were in, we have the exact same choice they had. So do you know the difference between good and evil? If so why would not Adam and Eve.
I believe that it was all a part of God's plan. God knows all and sees all, sees beginning to end and so He knew exactly what would happen. I believe that He has a purpose for everything that happened in the creation, even evil. I don't believe that Adam was created perfect when God created him, but that he was created perfect for God's plan. He was earthy but not a perfect man and had much to learn. If he was perfect then how could he have made the wrong "choice" and sinned? He would have known better. Jesus was perfect and always did the right thing, was always in the Father's will. He is the exact image of the Father.
But as someone shared which has always stayed with me, what was perfect health to someone who never knew what it was like to be sick? What was the appreciation for the goodness and perfection of God without the contrast of darkness? How could Adam fully appreciate the love of God for him, even when he became estranged, without seeing the need of a Savior? And so I believe that it all had to happen according to the plan of God. Jesus died for us from the foundation of the world, so God knew everything that would take place, and in knowing this, He brought it all into creation. All is out of God according to Romans 11:36 This does not mean that God is evil, but that evil has its place in the plan of God and that its defeat will manifest the glory of God. It is just like an author who writes a book or a play and has all of the elements in the story or play. This does not mean that the author is evil, if evil is one of the elements, but that it has its place in the script. God bless.
G. Marks
How would we ever know that we need God, that without Him we are nothing, that He is our all in all, and how could we even appreciate the depth of God's love for us in the giving of His Son without what happened in the garden?
Hi Shana, it depends on what each of us believe. If sin and death was already in the earth before Adam was disobedient what need was there for Adam to fall into sin and death in order to experiance them.
I take my whole example from Jesus Christ, He never sin yet He experienced sin and death because of others.
We simply have no need to become sinners in order to experience sin.
Example: a rapest rapes a child, the child did not sin yet it did experience the sin of the rapest.
I believe they were learning the difference between good and evil.
The stroy of Adam and Eve is our story, we are right now in the place Adam and Eve were in, we have the exact same choice they had. So do you know the difference between good and evil? If so why would not Adam and Eve.
Because the story tells us that they only KNEW GOOD AND EVIL after eating of the tree...adding to or speculating about the events to make ones theology fit the story better is dishonest at best.
Because the story tells us that they only KNEW GOOD AND EVIL after eating of the tree...adding to or speculating about the events to make ones theology fit the story better is dishonest at best.
Again your only looking at there being only one way to wisdom of good and evil from the law. However scripture tells us there are two ways to gain wisdom of good and evil from the law.
The letter that killeth and the law written in our heart.
What you are saying Christy is that the only way for Adam and Eve to gain the knowledge of sin and death was to fall into sin and death.
Is not that the same thoughts others have put forth and you have been fighting against?
When God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and told them not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, did He expect them to obey His commandment or did their disobedience come as a surprise to Him?
Why, if it was His intention that they remain forever in their garden paradise, did He permit Satan to tempt them with the promise of godhood? Or did Satan gain entrance to the Garden without God's permission? Was this all part of a plan that unfolded as it did for a very good reason or was the Fall of Adam an enormous, unforeseen glitch in God's plan for mankind?
There is really only a theological problem here depending upon the point of view. Some people try to accuse a person of making God out to be evil, when the real problem is that they might see that what they believe about God is the problem in the first place.
The story of Adam and Eve when place in a couple of perspectives isn't something that is even rational to believe.
First if Adam and Eve were created perfect and with free will that doesn't explain how a perfect being would then be able to choose error.
Secondly, If God placed Adam and Eve in the garden to test them, what were they being tested for? They didn't even have thge "knowledge of good and evil" till AFTER they screwed up. So other than a "command" to obey, what did Adam and Eve even have to work with to make a informed choice. God certainly placed them in a position gauranteed to fail and then of course when they did fail, BIG SURPRISE, God sure showed them whos boss.
I think it is more about the nature of things, how things are and it is the nature of God. Scripture talks of praying for what must be. Adam and Eve may at some point been literal beings, but most likely the scriptures uses them as a metaphor.
Gods nature includes creation, I personally think that God doesn't plan and choose to create, since God doesn't chsnge, that is his nature, so he is continually creating, it is an inherantl part of his being.
Another factor of Gods creating is that he expands. It is not that God is incomplete, it is a matter of Gods nature of exansion is a continuance of his completeness. He is always complete and he will eternally be creating.
Because God never changes, he also knows everything about his own nature, he knows what that nature creates and he knows all that goes on and the end result.
He knows there are things that must be. The end result is that his creation will be a part of his expanding self. We are in that process, when someone talks about having this choice between being with God and being apart from him, that is not one of the choices man has, any more than man had a choice to be born, yet here we are.
The reason we have choices is that we can either resist and try to deny that this journey isn't a choice or we can make the best of everyday, which is a choice. You can choose many things that can seek to make your life better, cope with what you cannot do anything about, or you can make your life and those around you more miserable.
So God didn't put Adam and Eve on earth and feed them to satan after they screwed up with no real defense against what they would face.
Adam and Eve is the depiction of life and the journey we are going to face, whether you like it or not.
There is really only a theological problem here depending upon the point of view. Some people try to accuse a person of making God out to be evil, when the real problem is that they might see that what they believe about God is the problem in the first place.
The story of Adam and Eve when place in a couple of perspectives isn't something that is even rational to believe.
First if Adam and Eve were created perfect and with free will that doesn't explain how a perfect being would then be able to choose error.
This is how:
D - I - S - O - B - E - D - I - E - N - C - E ...... C - H - O - I - C - E ...... F - R - E - E -- W - I - L - L .
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
D - I - S - O - B - E - D - I - E - N - C - E ...... C - H - O - I - C - E ...... F - R - E - E -- W - I - L - L .
Ezekiel 18: 24 "But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
I'm not arguing against all that your saying, but you didn't choose to be born and enter into this journey, but you can choose to yell in large capitol letters and believe things that aren't true while your walking it.
God never gives up on anyone, it is inevitable that we will return to God, thge journey is the point, you can be miserable and wonder if God will honor all your efforts and pretend that you actually know what will happen to you. Or you can make the best of each day and help those around you make peace with life.
I already did answer your question, did you not read it?
He expected them to obey His commandment. He tested them to see IF! they would! They failed miserably! They died spiritually! SOUL DEAD!
TO TEST THEM!
NO.
YES.
NO.
Hi Verna Couple of things God not only knew Adam and Eve would fall that was the plan. God does not make mistakes and he knows everything that will happen, you can't surprise God. They were put in the Garden, good and evil were put in the same tree, the tree was put in the garden and Satan was sent there to provide the the temptation to eat from the tree, how could they not fall, just like we all would under the right circumstance and God knows what exactly to do to make us choose the choice we must make.
The bible even say God makes us all fall(sin) so he can have mercy on all.
Remember Christ was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
God planed it all, He has seen the end before the beginning.
This is all part of God's plan. He is creating us (man) in his image. The process is ongoing now and at the end of it we will be the image of our Father.
When God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden and told them not to eat the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, did He expect them to obey His commandment or did their disobedience come as a surprise to Him?
Why, if it was His intention that they remain forever in their garden paradise, did He permit Satan to tempt them with the promise of godhood? Or did Satan gain entrance to the Garden without God's permission? Was this all part of a plan that unfolded as it did for a very good reason or was the Fall of Adam an enormous, unforeseen glitch in God's plan for mankind?
Hi Katzpur Of course God was not surprised He planned for Adam and Eve to fall. They were created perfectly. for the purpose they had been created for, which was to fall so they and the rest of us could be saved through redemption by Jesus. The next question is why did God set it up so we all fall( sin) and must be saved by Jesus? He has determined that this was the best way to accomplish his plan so if we trust him, and I do, it is the best way. His way are higher than ours.
God's plan does not have any glitches, he is perfect and his plan is perfect.
That does bring up the question of free will. Why does everyone say we have free will. Where in the scriptures do they find that. God works in us to do his will and pleasure. We make choices but they are not free from influences and circumstance, they are all caused choices. God is in control. That is more true than most people believe. They believe that man's free will over rules God. How vain and full of ourselves can we be?
God has seen the end before the beginning. That means He has already planned every choice we will make and the circumstance that influences us to make those choices. So if the choice we make is other than what God has planned than he would be wrong and would not be God.
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