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@lucky. Calvinism is evil man made garbage. It is devil worship plain and simple. Your friends suffering does not change this because they are suffering for the wrong cause. The God you worship Is the God of Calvinism , and the real God is way different from him
You simply cannot be a calvinist and be a christian. Gods rules not mine. So yell at him if yore angry about it
@lucky. Calvinism is evil man made garbage. It is devil worship plain and simple. Your friends suffering does not change this because they are suffering for the wrong cause. The God you worship Is the God of Calvinism , and the real God is way different from him
You simply cannot be a calvinist and be a christian. Gods rules not mine. So yell at him if yore angry about it
Don't overstate the problem, Josh . . . just remain stalwart that Calvinism is a corruption of Christ's Gospel.
Since a few of you challenged my beliefs about Calvinism, I thought I would explain.
Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin) Unconditional Election Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement) Irresistible Grace Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)
Total Depravity is correct. Why? Man is a born sinner, spiritually dead and unable to make a decision to believe or exercise free will.
Note these texts: A born sinner: Ps 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me. Born in unbelief: Eph 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, Since those Paul wrote to were not physically dead, he must mean spiritually dead. He also says that all are born objects of wrath. Why, because they are in unbelief. Bible clearly says, Without faith it is impossible to please God.
Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath
Bible also makes it clear that God must convert us, (because we are spiritually dead) since the Bible always clearly states it is by Grace, because of God's love and kindness and HIs work that converts us and makes us believers.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 3:6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Unconditional Election: that is, it is not because of goodness in anyone that they are saved by the grace and will of God.
Tit 3:4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy.
Ro 9:15 For he says to Moses,"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." Ro 9:16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Limited Atonement is incorrect:
Note the following. The Isaiah text is a Messianic Prophecy. The whole chapter is about Christ.
Isa 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way;and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. This is fully in keeping with the New Testament since the promises of the Gospel are offered to all.
Irresistable Grace is also incorrect.
Ac 7:51 "You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
Also there are many texts in the New Testament that warn against falling away, which is also resisting Grace, that is refusing to repent or to continue in faith.
Jn 15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned
Lk 8:13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Ro 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Ro 8:12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Hope this explains my position, which is also in harmony with the teachings of the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod and the Lutheran Confessions written in the Book of Concord 1580 AD.
Note for TheoGeek: Predestination is the same as election or to be chosen. In the Greek text, the Greek word for "elect" or "election" is also sometimes translated, "chose or Chosen"
Here's a text that shows that election and Predestination are the same thing.
Eph 1:4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
Last edited by augiedogie; 12-21-2011 at 01:13 AM..
Reason: Forgot something
@ lucky. Calvinists are not christians they are calvinists. Also , I could easily tear apart any of your arguments as I did with your epesians 1 argument. Again , if you wanna debate me or anyone else on why calvinism is better than christianity , go ahead. That's what these forums are for.
But don't call it christianity. If Korean christians are calvinists , then they are calvinists and not christians. Simple as that. Suffering does not change the fact that they and you worship a false God.
And I'm not even trying to be harsh but you came into my thred with all these " how dare yous " and such so I felt I had to be a bit more blunt.
wow, that's arrogant.
Predistination and election have been a basic teaching of Christianity since the beginning. It is orthodox Christianity.
Was God wrong for electing Israel and not the Hittites? Is that evil? Why do you have a problem with God electing an entire nation for no other reason but his own whim....yet you have an issue with God electing a person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshinchrist
@lucky. Also it is calvinists who do a huge injustice to the scriptures. God will judge you my friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Don't overstate the problem, Josh . . . just remain stalwart that Calvinism is a corruption of Christ's Gospel.
I actually believed as you guys did...until I started studying the scriptures and realized from studying Daniel and Revelation that God is sovereign. He does things completely for his own purpose--not our's.
What do you do with Romans 8-9? Cut it out of your Bible? Have you guys ever READ Romans 9?
JoshinChrist is off the mark. One certainly can be a Calvinist and a true genuine Christian. They might be wrong about some doctrines, but IMHO, so is Josh. That doesn't mean he or anyone does not have genuine faith in their heart that trusts in Christ to save them from their sins.
Since a few of you challenged my beliefs about Calvinism, I thought I would explain....
The concepts of Calvinism are much broader than the five points that are traditionally associated with that particular Reformer's name. If you're really interested in what Calvin thought, the best thing to do is read what he himself wrote, rather than what others write concerning him. Probably Calvin's best work, to grasp his ideas at least, are found in his Institutes of the Christian Religion, linked here:
Surprisingly, the five points (TULIP, for lack of a better term) are really not so much about Calvin's exegesis of the scriptures, but rather what the Dutch Reformed Churches, which had emerged during the Protestant Reformation, where contesting for, and where they were in dispute with the five articles that were being advocated by the Remonstrants (Arminians), during that period.
In response to the doctrinal errors of the Arminians, the Dutch Reformed Church's simply summarized into five points of what they believed to have been the primary focus of the doctrinal contentions. Here is a summary of how those five points were organized and discussed at the council of Dordt:
For those today who simply assign the acronym "TULIP" to Calvin, I would say they are really being somewhat naive, particularly when one considers that Calvin had been resting in his grave for some 60 years prior to it's doctrinal formation.
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