The Trinity Doctrine is False (prophets, testament, faith, eternity)

[Michael Way]

I am now off of this thread, but I leave the following for whoever will make the effort to study these.



DOCTRINE OF THE HYPOSTATIC UNION AND KENOSIS OF JESUS CHRIST

DOCTRINE OF THE HYPOSTATIC UNION AND KENOSIS


Doctrine of Hypostatic Union

Doctrine of Hypostatic Union - Doctrines for download - Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ



Exegesis of Phil 2:5-7

Philippians 2:5-7 Commentary

[kids in america_]

Originally Posted by garya123

Jesus did speak in the Old testament but not with the name of Jesus because that name was reserved for when He came to earth. 1COR 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

You will note the God used many names to describe Himself in the Old testament to describe His many ways of ministry. But the name of Jesus was keep secret until the right time of revealing. ROM 16:25 "Now to Him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,"

The names are different, but they refer to the same person. If Jesus pre-existed as Yahweh in the Old Testament, again this would contradict Heb 1:1-2. Heb. 1:1, 2 implies that the Son did not speak “in times past”.

Do you not think of Jesus as part of the Godhead: as God the Son, existing in heaven from the beginning of time with God the Father?

[Cyber Munchkin]

Originally Posted by Jerwade

It's not very complicated, even a child comprehends.

Amen.... then why complicate and try to hinder what Christ has shown someone.... it is so sad when people not knowing the heart of another... tells them they don't know what they are talking about when they know with all their heart and so believe God.... when He has shown and spoken to them He, Himself is One with the Father, the Son and Spirit in their heart !!

Who do we listen to man or God ?? my answer will always be GOD !!

..... People with their "all grown up" attitude think they have arrived with all the knowledge about God and can not see God when He is right there in their midst revealing Himself too them !!
It's called a hardness of heart and it will always hinder the Spirit of God with their "grown up"... philosophies of why it can not be true..... !

Only a child like faith can believe this is to be true and God finds great joy and pleasure by blessing and revealing Himself as Christ to that heart.... amen !!

Jesus said in Mark 10:14, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these."

.... there seems to be many hindering the Spirit of God with their self-sufficiency knowledge about God.... rather then really knowing and trusting God with all their heart and receiving the faith even as small as a mustard seed mixed with the child like faith believing God when He has said, He is Christ....

Yes, a child can see that it is that simple because their minds are not all corrupted with interpretations, words, history, etc., and trust, believing when God says it is true, it is true.... they believe Him no matter what man, doctrines, tradition of man say...

.....yet, one can see with a hardened heart of knowledge can only lead to a greater hardened heart leading into un-belief and can not see God's truth..... their love for pride in knowledge blinds them so that they can only know about God, and really not know God, Himself !!

[garya123]

The problem with Theology is it is only heady minded knowledge of God without really knowing God. It is written "Knowledge puffs up but love edifies." The true Knowledge of God is to have His love and love each other, not in Word only but in deed also. Love is a triune relationship or it is nothing.

[ShanaBrown]

The scriptures that I shared are not hard to comprehend to me. They tell me clearly that Jesus had a God and derives all that He is and Has from His Father who is the Supreme God. Jesus came to reveal this God to us and for all that Jesus did, for all that the Father made Him and gave Him, He has my worship, adoration, and service. He is my Lord and Savior and has the right to be called God because the Father gave Him this right and authority. But I realize that the Supreme God, the Father, is the One and Only True God who is the source and originator of all.

Subjection is the highest, the ultimate glory of the Son of God. During the last two eons He will exercise power and authority, so that myriads will be subordinate to Him. He will be the Sovereign of the universe. He will subject all of God's creatures to Him. In doing this He acts like God, He uses the power and prerogatives of God. While He does it He is called God. But when He has accomplished it, He does not return to a state of absolute Deity, as the trinitarian theory must insist, but He resigns the very functions which pertain to Deity. He voluntarily abdicates His throne. He relinquishes His authority over creation, and takes a place subordinate.

A.E. Knoch

Philippians 2
5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father"



God bless.


"for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of My own accord,
but He sent Me." [ John 8:42]


"To sit at My right hand and at My left is not Mine to grant, but it is for
those for whom it has been prepared by my Father" [Matthew 20:23]


"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in
heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." [Mr 13:32]

"So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who
sent Me" [John 7:16]


"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but He who does the will of My Father in heaven." [Mt 7:21]

"And the Father Himself, which hath sent Me, hath borne witness of
Me. Ye have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His shape. [John 5:37]

"And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone." [Mr 10:18]

"And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges." [John 8:50]

John 8:54-56 Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, 'He is our God';

John 17:3: Now this is *eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

*eternal=aionios

John 5:26: For as the Father has life in himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself.

The Father granted or gave life to the Son.


**********************

"Jesus said to her, I am ascending to My Father and Your Father, to MY God and your God.'" - John 20:17 (RSV)

"He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me." [John 14:24]

"For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak." [John 12:49]


"Jesus said to them, "My food is to do the will of Him who sent
Me, and to accomplish His work." [John 4:34]

"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
the will of Him who sent Me." [John 6:38]

"saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done." [Luke 22:42]


" I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment
is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the
Father who sent Me." [John 5:30]

"I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master,
nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him." [John 13:16]

John 6. 55 For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by kids in america_

The names are different, but they refer to the same person. If Jesus pre-existed as Yahweh in the Old Testament, again this would contradict Heb 1:1-2. Heb. 1:1, 2 implies that the Son did not speak “in times past”.

Do you not think of Jesus as part of the Godhead: as God the Son, existing in heaven from the beginning of time with God the Father?

Christ is the Word and is God and spoke using many different names but could not speak as a Son in those days because He was not yet born into the world. As the Word He was always with the Father because the Word is eternal but to take on the title of Son among men, He had to be Born into the world. The name and relationship to the Father has always been in eternity but not known in time among men until Christ was prophesied about and then actually born.

He spoke using those other names in the O.T. but now speaks as the Son.

He did however appear as a full grown man in the person of Melchizedek but was only known as a Priest, not a Son. HEB 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abides a priest continually." Like onto the Son but not a Son because that denotes being born. He just appeared and then returned to the eternal realm.

Again:
1COR 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

It sure is a great mystery and I often have a hard time putting it into words so I don't fault anyone if they have a hard time also or if they understand it a little differently and say it in another way. As long as one believes Jesus is the Son sent by the Father and put their trust in Him they can be saved.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by garya123

Christ is the Word and is God and spoke using many different names but could not speak as a Son in those days because He was not yet born into the world. As the Word He was always with the Father because the Word is eternal but to take on the title of Son among men, He had to be Born into the world. The name and relationship to the Father has always been in eternity but not known in time among men until Christ was prophesied about and then actually born.

He spoke using those other names in the O.T. but now speaks as the Son.

He did however appear as a full grown man in the person of Melchizedek but was only known as a Priest, not a Son. HEB 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abides a priest continually." Like onto the Son but not a Son because that denotes being born. He just appeared and then returned to the eternal realm.

Again:
1COR 10:2-4 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

It sure is a great mystery and I often have a hard time putting it into words so I don't fault anyone if they have a hard time also or if they understand it a little differently and say it in another way. As long as one believes Jesus is the Son sent by the Father and put their trust in Him they can be saved.

::Sigh::

[ShanaBrown]

A few notes on Jesus and Melchizideck
"Melchizedek is believed to have existed eternally and since the Son of God is believed to have existed eternally (without beginning of days or end of life) and the writer says, “like the Son of God remains a priest forever,” it is believed Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same.


The phrase, "without genealogy" is translated from the Greek word agenealogeetos. Thayer's Greek to English Lexicon defines this word as "of whose decent there is no account," which means there is no recorded genealogy. The Greek for "without Father" is apithia and according to Thayer's Lexicon means, "whose father is not recorded in the genealogies." The phrase, "without mother" is the Greek ameetor which Thayer's defines as "born without a mother" and "whose mother is not recorded in the genealogy." Jesus has a recorded genealogy and a mother of record as found in Matthew and Luke. Since Jesus has a recorded genealogy and mother of record and Melchizedek does not, it becomes problematical that Melchizedek and Christ are one and the same. The Scripture says he was like the Son of God in relation to being a priest forever and not that he was the Son of God...Melchizedek was a priest. If Jesus was Melchizedek, He would already be the priest Melchizedek. He would not have to become the priest Melchizedek or a priest like Melchizedek. The writer clearly shows that Jesus became a priest like Melchizedek. (Hebrews 7:14-17) It is contradictory to conclude Jesus became who He already was. Some will argue the Son set aside being Melchizedek when He became the human Jesus. As already discussed, the idea that the Son was able to divest Himself of eternal properties or add temporal properties to eternal properties to become the human Jesus and still die as the eternal God is highly problematical"
D. Kroll

God bless.

[garya123]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

::Sigh::

And just what is it you object to. You didn't say much.

[ShanaBrown]

As long as one believes Jesus is the Son sent by the Father and put their trust in Him they can be saved.

I appreciate this your lack of condemnation for those believers who see this differently. God bless.