Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Utter nonsense! Did you actually read the passage?
OK, how about Paul?
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief .“—I Tim.1:15.
Paul did not remain sin conscious, but grew in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Chist, by the renewing of the mind
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. (like I said orthodox Christianity instead of doing this, dwells upon what is sin and what isn't sin(sin conscious) and salvation to it is a shallow message of escaping hell and going to heaven, instead of focusing on who they are in Christ and the transforming power this brings)
That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.
Utter nonsense! Did you actually read the passage?
OK, how about Paul?
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief .“—I Tim.1:15.
This saying of Paul's was not i'm a poor humble sinner saved by grace, but a saying that kept him and us in Remembrance of what we formerly was, so that we show the same love, mercy and forgiveness towards others that we had been shown.
For some a religious "scorecard" is needed. All I need is Romans 3:23for allhavesinned and fall short of the glory of God. The bible does go into great depths, both OT and NT so no one will have an excuse, but we all have "fallen short" because of our besetting sin.
The sin that God is most upset about? The sin of rejecting his solution to the sin problem... the refusal to accept his gift of salvation that comes alone thru Jesus and his redemptive work on the cross. This is, I believe, the Blashpeming of the Holy Spirit, or the unforgivable sin.
Is God upset when I curse, when I indulge in something of the flesh, when I speak words that harm, when I continue, in my actions, to fall short? I am sure he isn't pleased, but neither do I think he is upset and alarmed. I mean he saw my future, knew I would still fall short, yet he chose to send Jesus to take the punishment for those sins and to shed his blood to wash me clean of them so I could be adopted and brought into the family. Now I am his son, his heir. He loves me.
He has filled me with his Holy Spirit to help me, to give me power not to walk in the old ways... and even if I slip back to the old ways, he is there to pick me up, dust me off and set me back on a right path. This process is much more painful at times than this one sentence conveys, sometimes there is much anguish and painful consequences as a result, but my position as his son never changes.
To the OP: Pray for your neighbors, pray they are growing in the word of the Lord, are hearing good teaching and the bibles that they carry will come alive. We all come from different backgrounds, God's power to cleanse us and make us like him is a lifetime call. Love your neighbors, be a good witness in front of them and engage them in spiritual conversation when the opportunity arises. Be thankful that they are, at the least, going to a church and have a bible. Much better than heading to the bar.
Utter nonsense! Did you actually read the passage?
OK, how about Paul?
"This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief .“—I Tim.1:15.
Paul states again in Roman 7:
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.c For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.
Carry on reading into Romans 8. All you are doing is referencing Paul's former ways.
Your response along with Jimmiej's proves that you do not know what the good news is, it's absolutely nothing to do with going to heaven instead of hell. Also it is further proof that orthodox Christianity wants you focused on sin instead of Christ who delivers us out of this body of death.
To be carnally minded ( mindful of what you are in the flesh) is sin and death,
To be spiritual minded( mindful of who you are In Christ) is life and peace.
This saying of Paul's was not i'm a poor humble sinner saved by grace, but a saying that kept him and us in Remembrance of what we formerly was, so that we show the same love, mercy and forgiveness towards others that we had been shown.
Pcamps, being a sinner is not unawareness of your righteousness. Being a sinner is because your not righteous. It takes OBEDIENCE to the LAW of GOD to be righteous.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
There is nothing in the scriptures that show that you can see yourself in a righteous light and that will make you magically righteous. It doesn't work that way. After all many DID see themselves as righteous. The PHARISEES should come to mind. But Jesus showed they were not.
Jesus said:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Doing the WILL of the Father is that obedience to righteousness that Paul spoke of.
I think I understand where PCamps is standing - the covenant (all that concerns our walk with God) is given on a faith basis. The view of sin is law based, and the promise is not given through the Law, but through grace. (Rom 4)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
