Are you Saved if you have not been Baptised? (disciple, Jesus, verse)
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When God specifically says this is what baptism does, decision theology is rejecting one of the means of grace that God uses for the benefit OF the recipient rather than the SHOW FOR the audience
Mark 16:16
Whoever believes andisbaptizedwill be saved
Correct, God does not include baptism in other verses. But that doesn't automatically then rule out to say that Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 6:11 is not what it is saying.
Both are true, not one over the other.
No offense, but the division is occuring from those who are rejecting Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 6:11 as being just as true.
Oh, those four passage are all true, but the only one that I might even worry supports your reasoning is the Acts 2 one. The other three are hardly concrete proof-texts for the necessity of water baptism. (1 Cor. 6 - not talking about water baptism, c.f. Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3 - saving from bad conscience, not sin... see context of verses 13-20; Mark 16 - assuming it's even a valid portion of Scripture, just look at the logic tree).
I'll take the plethora of verses that don't require water baptism for salvation and use those to interpret Acts 2, rather than the other way around. Using 1 verse to interpret dozens of conflicting ones is just a bad hermeneutic.
Oh, those four passage are all true, but the only one that I might even worry supports your reasoning is the Acts 2 one. The other three are hardly concrete proof-texts for the necessity of water baptism. (1 Cor. 6 - not talking about water baptism, c.f. Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 3 - saving from bad conscience, not sin... see context of verses 13-20; Mark 16 - assuming it's even a valid portion of Scripture, just look at the logic tree).
I'll take the plethora of verses that don't require water baptism for salvation and use those to interpret Acts 2, rather than the other way around. Using 1 verse to interpret dozens of conflicting ones is just a bad hermeneutic.
Not to be argumentative but your are attempting to make this into a necessity only issue, when I'm stating that God says both are. In other words... It is necessary while at the same time it is not completely necessary.
Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Titus 3:5 is not speaking to the necessity of but to what is does.
Not to be argumentative but your are attempting to make this into a necessity only issue, when I'm stating that God says both are. In other words... It is necessary while at the same time it is not completely necessary.
Acts 2:38, 1 Peter 3:20-21, 1 Corinthians 6:11, Titus 3:5 is not speaking to the necessity of but to what is does.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6
Then the only "one baptism" that would be necessary would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rebirth into the family of God.)
Otherwise, there'd be two baptisms (worth mentioning here) and there isn't.
Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again....may we all be baptized in Christ.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6
Then the only "one baptism" that would be necessary would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rebirth into the family of God.)
Otherwise, there'd be two baptisms (worth mentioning here) and there isn't.
Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again....may we all be baptized in Christ.
Baptism is a symbol of the transformation that happens in the hearts of those who have asked Jesus into their heart.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6
Then the only "one baptism" that would be necessary would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rebirth into the family of God.)
Otherwise, there'd be two baptisms (worth mentioning here) and there isn't.
Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again....may we all be baptized in Christ.
No, there is only one baptism. Just like Jesus has human nature and a divine nature but is still one person so our one baptism has a dual aspect -- physical (water) and spiritual (the Spirit). That's why Jesus said that the new birth is a birth of water and the Spirit (see John 3:5).
No, there is only one baptism. Just like Jesus has human nature and a divine nature but is still one person so our one baptism has a dual aspect -- physical (water) and spiritual (the Spirit). That's why Jesus said that the new birth is a birth of water and the Spirit (see John 3:5).
Baptism is an absolute necessity for salvation.....said baptism has nothing to do with physical water.
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. Ephesians 4:4-6
Then the only "one baptism" that would be necessary would be the baptism of the Holy Spirit (rebirth into the family of God.)
Otherwise, there'd be two baptisms (worth mentioning here) and there isn't.
Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again....may we all be baptized in Christ.
I guess then one has to determine if baptism is something we decided to do for God, or God doing something to us. If we take that approach as you're suggesting, wouldn't it have been more accurate to have Ephesians read something to the effect:
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were dedicated to one hope when you made your decision ; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
I do not follow the two baptism's conclusion with Jesus said He's the water that never leaves us thirsty again. When he said that, he was dealing with physical water at that moment... was he not?
Just like this exchange with Peter; (John 13:5-9)
After that, he poured water into a basin and began to wash his disciples’ feet, drying them with the towel that was wrapped around him. He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?” Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand.” “No,” said Peter, “you shall never wash my feet.” Jesus answered, “Unless I wash you, you have no part with me.”
What do you think Peter wasn't understanding .... could it be possibly what Jesus meant when said:
“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
which later on (as Jesus said he would) Peter writes about Noah and his family and the connection to baptism:
In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
[[[[[[ running late ... will finish the point later ]]]]]]]
What do you think Peter wasn't understanding .... could it be possibly what Jesus meant when said:
“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."
Well, I don't think Jesus is talking at all about water baptism there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GREATDIVIDE46
That is just flat out wrong!! No other way to put it!
How so? Clearly Alpha8207 is saying that baptism by the holy spirit and salvation go hand in hand - they're inseparable. I agree.
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