The Sources: the Gospel of Matthew (zachariah, praying, priests, sinned)
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And moving along with Matthew's Gospel, there is this:
Matthew 3:14-15
14Then Joseph* got up, took the child and his mother by night, and went to Egypt, 15 and remained there until the death of Herod. This was to fulfil what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet, ‘Out of Egypt I have called my son.’ (NRSV)
This passage refers to the people of Israel in Egypt and Moses, not Jesus.
Exodus 4:22
"So you will say to Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD: Israel is my son, my firstborn"
Hos 11:11
"Out of Egypt they shall come trembling, like birds..."
>>1And it came to pass in those days, there went forth a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world be enrolled -- 2this first enrollment came to pass before Cyrenius was governor of Syria --
<<
RESPONSE:
Lets use a more accurate translation of Luke 2, in this case from the Codex Sinaticus from 325 AD, the earliest extant copy of the New Testament.
Luke 2
1 But it came to pass in those days, there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the habitable land should be enrolled.
2 This enrollment took place first when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.
This "first enrollment" obviously does not refer to the decree from Caesar Augustus since there were earlier enrollments under Augustus.
"Understanding these difficulties, there is little choice but to determine the population of the Roman Empire using various consensus estimates. The population of the world circa AD 1 has been considered to be between 200 and 300 million people. In that same period, the population of the early empire under Augustus has been placed at about 45 million. Using 300 million as the world benchmark, the population of the Empire under Augustus would've made up about 15% of the world's population. Of this 45 million people, Augustus declared within in his own census information that:
* In 28 BC the citizen population was 4,063,000 (including both men and women)
* In 8 BC - 4,233,000
* In AD 14 - 4,937,000
What Luke is refering to is the first census conducted by Quirinius when Judea (but not Galilee), having been ruled for 10 years following the death of King Herod the Great by his son Archelaus who was exiled by the Romans in 6 AD.
This census of Judea was a famous one because it nearly caused the first uprising by the Hebrews against Rome.
Josephus, Antiquities 17.342-344, 355 In the tenth year of Archelaus’ rule the leading men among the Jews and Samaritans, finding
his cruelty and tyranny intolerable, brought charges against him before Caesar the moment
they learned that Archelaus had disobeyed his instructions to show moderation in dealing
with them. Accordingly, when Caesar heard the charges, he became angry, and summoning
the man who looked after Archelaus’ affairs at Rome. . ., he said to him, “Go, sail at once and
bring him here to us without delay.” . . . And when Archelaus arrived, Caesar gave a hearing
to some of his accusers, and also let him speak, and then sent him into exile. . . Now the territory subject to Archelaus was added to (the province of) Syria, and Quirinius, a man of consular rank, was sent by Caesarto take a census of property in Syria and to sell the estate of Archelaus.
Josephus, War 2.117-118
The territory of Archelaus was now reduced to a province, and Coponius, a Roman of the
equestrian order, was sent out as procurator, entrusted by Augustus with full powers, including
the infliction of capital punishment. Under his administration, a Galilean named Judas incited his countrymen to revolt, upbraiding them as cowards for consenting to pay tribute to the
Romans and tolerating mortal masters, after having God for their lord. This man was a sophist
who founded a sect of his own, having nothing in common with the others.
Note: Coponius was Procurator under Quirinius for the day to day management of Judea. Quirinius was "governor" of Syria (now including Judea as a province) from 6 to 12 AD.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-24-2012 at 11:22 AM..
Reason: addition
Definition: first, before, principal, most important.
RESPONSE:
Evidently I'm not grasping the point you are trying to make.
Luke 2:1-2 "In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. (NRSV)
Archelaus, Herod the Great's son, and inheritor, became ruler of Judea upon Herod's death in 4 B.C. After ten years, in 6 AD. Archalaus was exiled by the Romans and Judea became a province under direct control of the Roman governor of Syria, Quirinius. Quirinius conducted his first census to determine the tax base and former holding of Archelaus.
According to Luke, Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem to register for this census. However, they resided in Nazareth in Galilee. Galilee remained under the control of King Herod's other son Herod Antipas and hence was never annexed by Syria. Hence, Galilee's citizens were not counted in the census of Judea. Luke got it wrong as well as his claim that there was a worldwide Roman census at that time.
From Introduction to Gosepl of Luke, New American Bible:
[2:1–2] Although universal registrations of Roman citizens are attested in 28 B.C., 8 B.C., and A.D. 14 and enrollments in individual provinces of those who are not Roman citizens are also attested, such a universal census of the Roman world under Caesar Augustus is unknown outside the New Testament. .... P. Sulpicius Quirinius became legate of the province of Syria in A.D. 6–7 when Judea was annexed to the province of Syria. At that time, a provincial census of Judea was taken up. If Quirinius had been legate of Syria previously, it would have to have been before 10 B.C. because the various legates of Syria from 10 B.C. to 4 B.C. (the death of Herod) are known, and such a dating for an earlier census under Quirinius would create additional problems for dating the beginning of Jesus’ ministry (Lk 3:1, 23). A previous legateship after 4 B.C. (and before A.D. 6) would not fit with the dating of Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod (Lk 1:5; Mt 2:1).
Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-24-2012 at 12:35 PM..
Reason: typo
Matthew in claiming fulfilled prophecies by Jesus made two mistakes within three verses of his chapter 12.
Matthew 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, ‘Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.’ 39But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
Error 1: Jesus claimed that only one sign will be given. Yet Matthew's gospel describes a number of miracles worked by Jesus.
Error 2: The Resurrection narratives report that while Jesus may have spent three days "in the heart of the earth" he only spent two nights.
Last edited by ancient warrior; 08-25-2012 at 07:33 AM..
Reason: typo
Matthew in claiming fulfilled prophecies by Jesus made two mistakes within three verses of his chapter 12.
Matthew 12:38-40
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, ‘Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.’ 39But he answered them, ‘An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40For just as Jonah was for three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
Error 1: Jesus claimed that only one sign will be given. Yet Matthew's gospel describes a number of miracles worked by Jesus.
Error 2: The Resurrection narratives report that while Jesus may have spent three days "in the heart of the earth" he only spent two nights.
There are 12 hours in a day and 12 hours in a night...Do the math...
...maybe if you ignore him, he'll find something else somewhere else to occupy his time other than his very best to discredit every written word of Scripture.
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