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Reason I ask is because let's just say someone who has it easy in life becomes a Christian and gets saved.
Then you have someone whose had it very rough in life who doesn't get saved.
How is that fair?
Its like almost from the start that God loved the person who had it easy in life and hated the person whose had it rough.
Let's take the story of Jacob and Esau.
Is it fair to say God disliked Esau from the start,while he was in the womb?
In my opinion God loves every individual equally it is those individuals who choose to either love God or not. Being "saved" per se is an individual choice which is also free will. I read the Bible often however, I feel the scriptures are one humans interpretation of the words God spoke. It is a good guideline but true belief in God can only come from within one's own soul and it is between you and God, no other humans are involved.
The Bible clearly states that God hated Esau. I believe in election -- and that God foreknows us...so yeah--I believe he hated Esau from before conception.
So, if God is love, why would he create somebody just to hate them? What's the point of being a missionary if God has already chosen his "elect".
I have a very hard time with your viewpoint. A loving God creates people just so he can hate them and then calls Christians to be the salt and light of the earth...for what? Those people who don't believe are already "elected" to go to Hell.
Your attititude toward to the concept of "predestination" is incredibly smug. I'm sure people must live it when you tell them in person that you're one of the "elect".
So, if God is love, why would he create somebody just to hate them? What's the point of being a missionary if God has already chosen his "elect".
I have a very hard time with your viewpoint. A loving God creates people just so he can hate them and then calls Christians to be the salt and light of the earth...for what? Those people who don't believe are already "elected" to go to Hell.
Your attititude toward to the concept of "predestination" is incredibly smug. I'm sure people must live it when you tell them in person that you're one of the "elect".
The truth is, they speak out both sides of their mouths and don't really understand what they are talking about. In one breathe they tell you they are elected by God and in the next breathe they tell you, you have to choose God. All they have is empty doctrines that they don't even understand or cannot explain.
Numbers 23:19 - God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Isaiah 55:9 - “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.
I have no problem with the concept of God's love for mankind and individual people, although I'm not sure that human interpretations of "equally" can adequately quantify God's love. So much of the "God is love" discussion, tends to draw conclusions about what God will/won't do as a result of His love ..... based on human perceptions, standards, logic and rationale. Instead of accepting that God loves mankind and letting God's Word speak for itself, many want to dogmatically declare what God will/won't do ... on the basis of their perception of how people who love other people should behave.
God is not a man and God's love cannot be understood in a human context. We must simply accept the things God declares as being righteous, holy and just ... even though we may not fully understand the timeless, universal implications. God is loving, full of grace and mercy and unchanging. The things He has revealed about Himself and His plan and purpose for mankind and this world ... are true and will happen exactly as God has said.
The rejection of some Biblical truths, on the basis of "I just can't believe God would ..... etc" --- is where many start getting into doctrinal trouble with their perceptions of God. --- Does God love everyone "equally?" --- I believe it is possible that He does ... but, not to the extent that everyone will be the same throughout eternity; ... just as they are not the same now.
So, if God is love, why would he create somebody just to hate them? What's the point of being a missionary if God has already chosen his "elect".
God created man, and they rebelled. The Bible says he foreknows some--and of those he elects them to salvation. He grants grace to allow them to receive his grace. I don't know who he has chosen and who he hasn't. I will preach the Gospel to everyone. Those that are among the elect--they can repent and receive Christ. The ones that aren't can't claim they haven't heard.
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I have a very hard time with your viewpoint. A loving God creates people just so he can hate them and then calls Christians to be the salt and light of the earth...for what? Those people who don't believe are already "elected" to go to Hell.
He is also a just God that will punish those that rebel. Do you have a problem with a judge sending someone to jail? What's the difference?
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Your attititude toward to the concept of "predestination" is incredibly smug. I'm sure people must live it when you tell them in person that you're one of the "elect".
Honestly? I thought it was a heresy from the pit of hell. I have come to realization that it is a Biblical teaching. I'm sorry if you think I'm smug--I'm just trying to answer truthfully. I trust Christ for my salvation. I believe he died to pay for my sin. The Bible says that means I'm among the elect. It's not because of what I've done--I'm a horrible vile sinner. But God showed me grace.
God created man, and they rebelled. The Bible says he foreknows some--and of those he elects them to salvation. He grants grace to allow them to receive his grace. I don't know who he has chosen and who he hasn't. I will preach the Gospel to everyone. Those that are among the elect--they can repent and receive Christ. The ones that aren't can't claim they haven't heard.
He is also a just God that will punish those that rebel. Do you have a problem with a judge sending someone to jail? What's the difference?
Honestly? I thought it was a heresy from the pit of hell. I have come to realization that it is a Biblical teaching. I'm sorry if you think I'm smug--I'm just trying to answer truthfully. I trust Christ for my salvation. I believe he died to pay for my sin. The Bible says that means I'm among the elect. It's not because of what I've done--I'm a horrible vile sinner. But God showed me grace.
Let us imagine for a moment, if God loved one people, and not another people. Even though He made both people.
Does God not know that if He shows His love to one group, and not to the other, that there will be envy?
Is it not the same as a mother who shows love to one child, and contempt for another?
So the only "benefit" of loving one person/people more than another, is to create envy.
Does God want us to envy?
Probably not.
---
Personally, I believe that the word "hate" used to describe Esau is not hate like you and I know hate to be. As long as we consider God to be similar to man, we will fail to learn about Him as we should.
His ways are not our ways. If man hates someone, you can be sure that that is not how God hates. In fact, Paul describes hatred as a "fruit of the flesh" and a sin.
So if God "hates" someone, it's not the hatred that we experience in this world, which is sinful. Personally, I think that what is meant by "hate" regarding Esau, is that God was "repulsed" by what Esau represented, which is the flesh nature in mankind.
In this view, Esau represents the flesh, and Jacob represents the spirit in mankind.
Blessings,
brian
Very nice Brian...these are spiritual messages and you've explained this one beautifully!!!
In my opinion God loves every individual equally it is those individuals who choose to either love God or not. Being "saved" per se is an individual choice which is also free will. I read the Bible often however, I feel the scriptures are one humans interpretation of the words God spoke. It is a good guideline but true belief in God can only come from within one's own soul and it is between you and God, no other humans are involved.
I have no problem with the concept of God's love for mankind and individual people, although I'm not sure that human interpretations of "equally" can adequately quantify God's love. So much of the "God is love" discussion, tends to draw conclusions about what God will/won't do as a result of His love ..... based on human perceptions, standards, logic and rationale. Instead of accepting that God loves mankind and letting God's Word speak for itself, many want to dogmatically declare what God will/won't do ... on the basis of their perception of how people who love other people should behave.
God is not a man and God's love cannot be understood in a human context. We must simply accept the things God declares as being righteous, holy and just ... even though we may not fully understand the timeless, universal implications. God is loving, full of grace and mercy and unchanging. The things He has revealed about Himself and His plan and purpose for mankind and this world ... are true and will happen exactly as God has said.
The rejection of some Biblical truths, on the basis of "I just can't believe God would ..... etc" --- is where many start getting into doctrinal trouble with their perceptions of God. --- Does God love everyone "equally?" --- I believe it is possible that He does ... but, not to the extent that everyone will be the same throughout eternity; ... just as they are not the same now.
A fathers' heart for his children is unchangeable.
Personally, I believe His love is comprehensible.
But you are correct, many dog'matically declare otherwise.
I think that the parable of the vineyard workers covers this by telling you that that's just the way it is. However, I think there's a better way to look at it by considering Paul's discussion of spiritual education, which is found in Hebrews.
Paul says that many of us remain at the level of children in our spiritual growth, and I think your question is spiritually childish in that fashion.
Children need the love of their parents, but those children become adults whom learn to cope with the absence of it. That's true whether you come to terms with being a less favored sibling or your parents pass. When you reach a stage of your life that requires that you ask if God loves equally, then maybe you're ready for a more adult spirituality.
I would ask of you: what difference does it make how God treats others? Are you doing right in the eyes of God? Are you living up to what you believe to be the right path?
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Reason I ask is because let's just say someone who has it easy in life becomes a Christian and gets saved.
Then you have someone whose had it very rough in life who doesn't get saved.
How is that fair?
It's not. Welcome to the real world. It sucks. But would you rather have Matthew and no Paul because Paul was rotten for most of his life, or would you rather benefit from the good works of both when they're on the right path?
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