Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's ascribing the attributes of man to God---understanding God in our terms. Yes--I get it. I know what it is. Having said that, the Bible clearly states that God hates. You can pretend it doesn't, and skirt around it all you want....but it's there. God loves the world, but he does hate sinners.
God demonstrated His love for us WHILE we were STILL sinners.
"I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.
While Christ was hanging on the cross he said "Father forgive them, they know not what they do...".
Christ was MORE than just "kicked in the teeth" and his love was not withdrawn. You seem to misunderstand the entire point of the cross.
Amen! It is frustrating I know, sparrow . . . but I fear that there is no penetrating decades of indoctrination. It has become gestalt. We can only witness and explain to those who are capable of hearing.
Your right, Rural. That Love the Sinner, hate the sin is mostly a saying based on other verses that should be obvious such as Matt 5:44.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuralMissionary
Do you understand the idea of hyperbole?
You've got to be kidding... Oh I see, so its hyperbole when Jesus says hate your parents but can't possibily be hyperbole or a word meaning "like less" when it comes to Esau and Sinners?... Romans 5:8 says But God demonstrates his love for us in this that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Hmm I guess he died for us out of pure hate then Would that mean God is both Love and Hate? I don't think so but he is just and Justice does not = Hate.
Anyways, since I'm busy right now and I have a feeling this is about to spiral into a predestination argument, I'll bow out for the moment. Maybe I'll respond later again
The Bible does say God hates. It's describing it in a way that we can understand it. It also says he's jealous. And he loves. And he's just.
Are those just things that people make up to understand God better?
Hate and jealousy are anthropopathisms in the same manner in which eyes and hands, which are anthropomorphisms, are ascribed to God even though God doesn't have eyes and hands because He is Spirit. This is not a reference to the humanity of Jesus (who is in resurrected body), but to the fact that all three Persons of the Godhead are Spirit. As God, Jesus is Spirit. As man, He has a resurrected human body. But God the Father and God the Holy Spirit don't have bodies. Neither does the deity of Jesus Christ.
Just as God does not have eyes and hands (anthropomorphisms) but is said to have them to make Him somewhat understandable, so also He does not hate or get jealous (anthropopathisms).
But God's love is not an anthropopathism. God is said to be love. Not just that He loves, but that He is love.
Quote:
Except that the Bible says God hates.
That you keep saying that shows that you don't have any idea what anthropopathisms and anthropomorphisms mean.
Quote:
Does he? Where does the Bible say that?
For one, John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
That verse says that Jesus Christ died for the world so that WHOEVER in the world believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.
That verse does not say that Jesus died for certain people in the world so that whoever among those who Jesus happened to die for might believe in Him and have eternal life. Remember that Calvinism says that everyone who Jesus died for is saved and will come to believe in Him.
Nor does it say, that Jesus died for certain people in the world so that those He happened to die for will be saved and as a result, believe in Him.
If Calvinism were true then John 3:16 would have to read, For God so loved some of the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that all among those He died for will be saved and therefore come to believe in Him.
What John 3:16 says is, "For God so loved the world, that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Then there is 1 John 2:2 which I referred to in the other thread. 'and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.'
The world refers to the world of men. But believers, while in the world, are not of the world (John 17:14-15). In 1 John 2:2 John distinquishes believers from the world. He states that Jesus is the propitiation for our (the believer's sins), and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. So in John's statement it is made clear that Jesus died for the sins of both believers and unbelievers. He died for the elect and the non-elect. And yes, that means that Jesus died for those who will spend the eternal future in the lake of fire.
Do you understand that John made a distinction between believers and the world. The whole world. All the world. The entire world. John said that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of believers, and the sins of the entire world as well.
It cannot be more plain than that. But look at 1 Tim. 4:10 which, again, I already showed you in the other thread.
1 Tim. 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.
Here, Paul distinquishes between believers and all men. Paul says that Jesus is the Savior of ALL men, and especially of believers. What that means is that Jesus died for the sins of all men so that those who believe in Him will be saved. The fact that Jesus died for all men does not mean that everyone is automatically saved. It means that salvation is potential. Salvation is applied only to whoever believes on Christ, based on His saving work on the cross.
And then there is 2 Cor. 5:14 which says 'for the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; 15] and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf.
That verse says that ALL died. In Adam, ALL DIE (1 Cor. 15:22)!!! And since all died as both 1 Cor. 15:22 and 2 Cor. 5:14 state, then Jesus Christ died for ALL as 2 Cor. 5:14 says.
Now, all men are in Adam and therefore are under the penalty of death. Spiritual death which results in physical death, and the second death which is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.
But only those who believe in Christ are IN CHRIST.
All right. I've have shown you four verses. John 3:16 which speaks of God's love for the world. And 1 John 2:2, 1 Tim. 4:10, 1 Cor. 15:22, and 2 Cor. 5:14
Now make sure you get this next paragraph!!!
Let me put it like this. 1 Cor. 15:22 says that in Adam, ALL die. 2 Cor. 5:14 says that one (Christ) died for all, therefore all died. Who are the all who died? Those who are in Adam are the all!! And in Adam, ALL DIE. Who then are the all for whom Christ died? The same all who died in Adam!!! All men are in Adam and have died spiritually, and so Christ died for all men!!! And it is just that simple.
I think God, Gaya, or whatever we want to call the greater spiritual entity loves us all. I think it's humans who create these constructs that allow for certain outcomes to happen.
If we're brought here on earth to do good things, we can also here to become self-destructive if we're unaware. Whether or not a God exists in all of us, that's up to us as a society to create the right conditions for fairness.
Constructs such as the "divine right" has made a profound impact, not only for humans and civilizations, but look at how our ego driven society is killing the planet. Yet, there is still a huge denial, and people think that scriptures can't be changed down along the line?
The positive side is, people are always constantly re-writing new scripts in there lives. Whether or not one believes in God, there still is that social responsibility for each person to fulfill, no?
Your right, Rural. That Love the Sinner, hate the sin is mostly a saying based on other verses that should be obvious such as Matt 5:44.
You've got to be kidding... Oh I see, so its hyperbole when Jesus says hate your parents but can't possibily be hyperbole or a word meaning "like less" when it comes to Esau and Sinners?... Romans 5:8 says But God demonstrates his love for us in this that while we were still sinners Christ died for us. Hmm I guess he died for us out of pure hate then Would that mean God is both Love and Hate? I don't think so but he is just and Justice does not = Hate.
Anyways, since I'm busy right now and I have a feeling this is about to spiral into a predestination argument, I'll bow out for the moment. Maybe I'll respond later again
Exactly Jrhockney. God forbid that He would love others while still sinners, like he did for them that believe God hates sinners.
Location: where people are either too stupid to leave or too stuck to move
3,982 posts, read 6,707,033 times
Reputation: 3690
Maybe he doesn't . So strange everyone running the same race to the same destination where some of us have obstacles getting in the way of gettin to the finish line.
I think God, Gaya, or whatever we want to call the greater spiritual entity loves us all.
God IS love . . . that means it is NOT possible for God NOT TO LOVE . . . all of us.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It is frustrating I know, sparrow . . . but I fear that there is no penetrating decades of indoctrination. It has become gestalt. We can only witness and explain to those who are capable of hearing.
Would that mean God is both Love and Hate? 
I don't think so but he is just and Justice does not = Hate.
