Once & For All: Romans 5:18 vs 2 Thess 1:9 (myth, after life, preacher)
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Rob, my understanding of the meaning of "aionios" is different than many others. My belief is that aionios simply describes something as existing in and beyond the age. Let's consider a particular verse:
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Now let's consider both of those bolded words above because they come from the very same Greek Word "Aionios". This simply means that this adjective is describing punishment and life existing in and beyond the age.
So both of these (Life and Punishment) exist now and exist in the next age.
And you leave it vague and undefined to suit your theology. I understand.
Here's the thing: the debate over what aionion really means---age or eternity; forever--can go on.....well, forever But from a practical point I expect a God of the universe to be the very best. Sending 90% of humanity to hell for eternity or having to annihilate is simply not the best someone who puts Himself out as a God of the universe is expected to do, at least by the standards of any rational human being. We look at a parent who as 20 kids and if 19 of them end up in prison or executed we don't think twice about saying, "What the **** is wrong with those parents?! How did they raise their children so badly?? Should it be any different with God? Shouldn't we expect quadrillions times the best outcome for mankind from a God of the universe who can send galaxies crashing into each other with a blink of His eye? Just something to ponder.
You continue base your theology on human reasoning instead of trusting the Word.
If you wanted God the be the best you would put your viewpoints aside and let Him (in your mind) do want He is sovereignly purposed to do - whether you like the results or not.
Very good Thrill. To be open enough to consider what you are saying is very difficult when your mind is already made up about God punishing sinners, and when we have a carnal minded understanding of the scriptures.
1 Corinthians 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
Christians are equipped to understand the Scriptures. It may take time - but we are equipped with the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
Christians are equipped to understand the Scriptures. It may take time - but we are equipped with the Holy Spirit.
We are equipped because Christ abides with us and His Holy Spirit can guide us to what God has "written in our hearts" . . . so we may know the truth and need not that any man teach us. Unfortunately, way too many follow the "precepts and doctrines of men" "written in ink" and ignore the Holy Spirit . . . not trusting what is "written in their hearts" because men have told them it cannot be trusted.
1 Corinthians 2:12 - Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God,
Christians are equipped to understand the Scriptures. It may take time - but we are equipped with the Holy Spirit.
They may well be, but that does not mean they automatically understand scripture by it. If this was true there would not be over a bazillion denominations claiming they have the truth.
And you leave it vague and undefined to suit your theology. I understand.
Rob, what part is vague to you? Everywhere that aionios is used I use the same understanding. Can you give me a verse where aionios is used that you believe cannot mean that?
For example, you want to believe it is "eternal", right? But let's look here:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Now look up a concordance and you will see that the part I bolded is from aionios. Now notice does "since the world began" sound like eternity to you?
Does you agree that the word "aionios" should be translated as "since the world began" in that verse?
Surely if something began then it cannot be have always have been right? It had to be something that started at some point. Additionally, does anyone believe the secret is never going to be understood (that would defeat the purpose of a secret). Eventually someone is going to know the secret so this means that the period here mentioned as aionios has not only a beginning but at some point an ending (what that which is a secret is no longer secret).
Now tell me how can I believe otherwise? The argument is TOO strong to believe contary. If I believe just to suit a respective church of believers then I put God's Word to naught. I rather believe in Truth then to be accepted by those that claim to believe in our Lord because Truth is really where our Lord is.
Rob, what part is vague to you? Everywhere that aionios is used I use the same understanding. Can you give me a verse where aionios is used that you believe cannot mean that?
For example, you want to believe it is "eternal", right? But let's look here:
Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Now look up a concordance and you will see that the part I bolded is from aionios. Now notice does "since the world began" sound like eternity to you?
Does you agree that the word "aionios" should be translated as "since the world began" in that verse?
Surely if something began then it cannot be have always have been right? It had to be something that started at some point. Additionally, does anyone believe the secret is never going to be understood (that would defeat the purpose of a secret). Eventually someone is going to know the secret so this means that the period here mentioned as aionios has not only a beginning but at some point an ending (what that which is a secret is no longer secret).
Now tell me how can I believe otherwise? The argument is TOO strong to believe contary. If I believe just to suit a respective church of believers then I put God's Word to naught. I rather believe in Truth then to be accepted by those that claim to believe in our Lord because Truth is really where our Lord is.
I gave you three verses where the word is used. Eternal is eternal.
I gave you three verses where the word is used. Eternal is eternal.
Rob, if you want to maintain that aionios means "eternal" and you believe that is what GOD ACTUALLY SAID, then I'm nobody to argue and instead would tell you that you must CONTINUE to believe so until you learn to accept something else as Truth. I don't want you to embrace a lie. I want you to be convinced of what I'm saying. If your not able to, then you must believe what your currently hold as truth. Embracing Truth is far more important than being a part of a group or consensus.
Rob, if you want to maintain that aionios means "eternal" and you believe that is what GOD ACTUALLY SAID, then I'm nobody to argue and instead would tell you that you must CONTINUE to believe so until you learn to accept something else as Truth. I don't want you to embrace a lie. I want you to be convinced of what I'm saying. If your not able to, then you must believe what your currently hold as truth. Embracing Truth is far more important than being a part of a group or consensus.
I am a black guy that is politically conservative. I am not concerned about consensus opinions.
I believe God is in control of His Word - translations included. The good translations persevere over time. The bad translations do not. If He can't control what He wants to say to creation - how powerful is He?
So you can pick fights with the translators if you wish. The major doctrines have remained constant through the years - and that is through God's power.
Do you care to comment on the three verses I quoted?
By the way, the Rom. 16:25 verse you quoted - the term is slightly different from Matt. 25:46. It's the only place it's used in the NT.
I believe God is in control of His Word - translations included. The good translations persevere over time. The bad translations do not. If He can't control what He wants to say to creation - how powerful is He?
So you can pick fights with the translators if you wish. The major doctrines have remained constant through the years - and that is through God's power.
Do you care to comment on the three verses I quoted?
By the way, the Rom. 16:25 verse you quoted - the term is slightly different from Matt. 25:46. It's the only place it's used in the NT.
Good for you! Agreed.
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But from a practical point I expect a God of the universe to be the very best. Sending 90% of humanity to hell for eternity or having to annihilate is simply not the best someone who puts Himself out as a God of the universe is expected to do, at least by the standards of any rational human being. We look at a parent who as 20 kids and if 19 of them end up in prison or executed we don't think twice about saying, "What the **** is wrong with those parents?! How did they raise their children so badly?? Should it be any different with God? Shouldn't we expect quadrillions times the best outcome for mankind from a God of the universe who can send galaxies crashing into each other with a blink of His eye? Just something to ponder.
Good for you! Agreed.
