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If God will work it out in the end I see it as unconditional. Every one can live and have fun in the end all are saved, what a gospel. Which Apostle preached it? God wants that all will be saved, but He kidnaps nobody to heaven.
Think of the rejoicing in that doctrine among murders, adulterers, pedophiles, liars and ... the list is quite long and they get to have all that fun and .. pay no real price compared to gaining eternal life anyway.
Think what a license that belief is for well Licentiousness and every sort of badness. You can't lose because God will make you believe in the end, so ............ have fun.
Caused by God, not forced by God. Was Jonah forced to testify to Ninevah? You might think so... but I think God caused Jonah to be willing to.
Last edited by Thy Kingdom Come; 03-31-2014 at 01:23 PM..
Think of the rejoicing in that doctrine among murders, adulterers, pedophiles, liars and ... the list is quite long and they get to have all that fun and .. pay no real price compared to gaining eternal life anyway.
You mean murders like Saul/Paul and muderers/adulterers like David?
What makes you think its fun to be a murderer/adulterer/pedophile etc.
You mean murders like Saul/Paul and muderers/adulterers like David?
What makes you think its fun to be a murderer/adulterer/pedophile etc.
Saul and David repented on their own after being confronted with their error. In fact many who have sinned have.
ASV 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
Now while many are doing such things they do enjoy it or ... they would not do it.
OK, don't repent like David and Paul and all those others, just keep doing it and God will let you until he thinks it is time to make you quit and live forever with Him. Right?. Not a chance.
Let's get this settled once and for all and put an end to this madness. If the scriptures are inspired then these two verse should harmonize. We shouldn't have to use lame excuses like, "Well, we have to look at the entire Bible in context." Or "We have to put 2 Thessalonians 1:9 with Psalm 32:4 and then look at Deuteronomy 34:11-13 and see what Malachi 2:1 and Haggai 3:12 say, bla bla bla. No computer on earth can harmonize 31,240 verses that way.
Let's just take these two seemingly contrasting passages written by the same author, Paul. My challenge to both the universalists and the eternal tormentists is to simply harmonize them.
Universalists, explain why 2 Thess. 1:9 means all will be saved.
Eternal tormentists, explain why Romans 5:18 means eternal torment.
If these two verses cannot be harmonized then the scriptures are not inspired, pure and simple. If nobody attempts to do it we will understand the situation: Paul either was a schizophrenic nutjob or the scriptures have been severely tampered with. Nobody has to bother to argue this conclusion. It is evident on its face.
Very simple. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 is concerning "age-lasting" or "age-during" destruction from the face of the Lord. "Destruction" and "Lost" use the same Greek word. It never means "so destroyed as to never be saved."
So, the age-during destruction is only until Romans 5:18,19 kick in, not to mention 1 Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10, etc.
Oh I suspect being eaten by the fish was a powerful motivator. That was force applied to "move" him to obedience.
Exactly. So if you have no problem with God "moving" Jonah to obedience... why do you have a problem with God "moving" all mankind to turn to Him, repent, and obey??
ASV 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
Just so you know, one can miss out on being in God's kingdom and still have eonian or age-during life to come.
For believers of the nations, Christ will prohibit those believers whose lives exibit the above as a livelihood and yet they will still have age-during life in the eons/ages to come.
Saul and David repented on their own after being confronted with their error. In fact many who have sinned have.
ASV 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
Now while many are doing such things they do enjoy it or ... they would not do it.
OK, don't repent like David and Paul and all those others, just keep doing it and God will let you until he thinks it is time to make you quit and live forever with Him. Right?. Not a chance.
Repentence and faith in Christ. That's the condition all will meet, just like Paul and David.
From Psalm 22
All the ends of the world Shall remember and turn to the Lord, And
All the families of the nations Shall worship before You. For the kingdom is the Lord’s, and He rules over the nations.
All the prosperous of the earth Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to the dust Shall bow before Him, Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
All without exception "go down to the dust..." and that's how many will "... remember and turn to the Lord.... and worship... and bow down before Him".
Exactly. So if you have no problem with God "moving" Jonah to obedience... why do you have a problem with God "moving" all mankind to turn to Him, repent, and obey??
God did not move Him to salvation. In fact later Jonah had a further problem with God and God did not ..... move him any further.
God can make a person do His will, but in the Universal salvation view God has no problem with people doing the most horrible things because He will change them later, so why not do bad? Man then becomes a robot forever and Jonah did not. God forces no one to change, though He can force them to do His will in a specific instance, as he did Jonah.
Repentance has to come from the heart, not from an outside force. If it does it isn't repentance. Who has God ever forced to repent? he has always let man choose.
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