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The church handles the money I earn better than I do (which I simply DO NOT believe). So I'll give them money to the point money is "tight" in my family. I'll then pray that the good Lord above gives some back.
I give and have no problem giving. However, I feel I'm much more prepared to handle money flowing through my household than the church ever will be.
I don't think in the NT it specifically mentions giving it to a "church", and if the money you give to the church never gets used for a good purpose, maybe you do need to give elsewhere....In the NT it says "Give it to GOD." You will have to determine what or where the Lord wants you to give. For myself, I know that the money I give to my "church" goes to a good purpose, and is not just lining someone's pocket.
Last edited by cg81; 10-09-2007 at 08:53 AM..
Reason: modified a point...
The church handles the money I earn better than I do (which I simply DO NOT believe). So I'll give them money to the point money is "tight" in my family. I'll then pray that the good Lord above gives some back.
I give and have no problem giving. However, I feel I'm much more prepared to handle money flowing through my household than the church ever will be.
But thats just my opinion. I say give it all away if you want to..
Also.. is the 10% rule in the OT or the NT?
I hear what you are saying bigthirsty and to an extent you and I aren't that far apart in our flesh.
But here's the thing I'm trying to come to grips with....who am I giving my offering to?
The church? Nope.
God.
What the church does with what I offer to the Lord is the church's responsibility, not mine.
That's one of my personal struggles right now, what if you are giving to a church that you personally feel isn't doing Kingdom work with your offering?
Is that my call?
My responsibility?
Or is all I am called to do is just give faithfully?
Is my offering still an offering if I say "My church isn't doing right with these funds, so I'm giving to a homeless shelter."
Can I say that?
Should I say that?
That's something I'm dealing with, which I think kinda ties into what you are saying....
We are told to bring our tithes into the storehouse. What is supposed to happen to them then. What did they do with it in the OT days? Wasn't it used to support the priests and temples?
Does the church give it all to the poor? Couldn't we do the same without having to pay salaries and upkeep on a building?
This is still a big debate, with a lot of variables involved. I tithe on my gross, but some say that you have to render to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's". meaning that taxes must be paid, assuming that we have to be obedient the Laws of the land (the government), I can see where we would only have net to claim as our own. One pastor said to use your discretion in choosing from the two. Since tithing is an act of obedience and worship to God.
So again I do 10% of gross.
Imo, God would never, never want me to take food, shelter, or clothing from my children or from anyone I know to give it to "my church" We (if we are christian/believer} are the church. I agree that if we are a member of a congregatiom that we should give money to help with expenses of the building and other projects they are into to spread Gods word. No where in the nt does it say to give a 10% tithe of your money to the church..A tithe would also include some of your time spent in visiting the shutins, doing good deeds and other acts of kindness to other people.Personally, if you have to think about and figure out exactly what 10% of your money equals, and what sacrifices you are having because of it, put your money back in your pocket..I always liked that part about never let your left hand know what the right one is doing If a preacher has to stand before the congregation and beg and make the congregation feel guilty over money there is something terribly wrong..
Oh blue it won't let me rep you or I would. I will get you when it lets me. I agree with your school of thinking 100%. I just used that same verse for something for our Church. I think its more about your heart. Our minister did a sermon about the woman weeping over Jesus's feet and using her perfume. She didn't calculate at all.....I think its more about the heart than the calculator.
How is it robbing God? Didn't he say be fruitful and multiply?
So because God has a complex I would need to let my child go hungry so he/she can feel like I'm not robbing him/her.
Wow..
Let me put it another way..
You loan me some money. I will pay you back.. I can't right now and if I did my child would go hungry. Do you still want your money right now.. or do you want it a little later? What is the "Christian" thing to do?
Imo, God would never, never want me to take food, shelter, or clothing from my children or from anyone I know to give it to "my church" We (if we are christian/believer} are the church. I agree that if we are a member of a congregatiom that we should give money to help with expenses of the building and other projects they are into to spread Gods word. No where in the nt does it say to give a 10% tithe of your money to the church..A tithe would also include some of your time spent in visiting the shutins, doing good deeds and other acts of kindness to other people.Personally, if you have to think about and figure out exactly what 10% of your money equals, and what sacrifices you are having because of it, put your money back in your pocket..I always liked that part about never let your left hand know what the right one is doing If a preacher has to stand before the congregation and beg and make the congregation feel guilty over money there is something terribly wrong..
I am a strong believer in tithing. Not that there weren't times when it was a battle with my flesh, because I'd have some urgent financial need happening. I used to feel like the widow with her mite (Mark12:42) sometimes, giving from a total lack, but God never let me down. The more I gave, the more Blessings I received. He watches over His word to perform it on our lives. Now I am without a home church but I still tithe and send offerings to missionaries, local food banks and the Salvation army. If we aren't good stewards with what we have, how can we be trusted with more?
As responsible adults/parents we try to teach our children responsible behaviors with money. We establish rules that make repetitive learning/doing the theme for instruction. Sooner or later we "hope" what we taught (rules) our children will reap a lesson. The lesson is priorities, to have control over money, by saving and spending wisely. Not all get the message, and not all teach very well.
However our instructions come from God. The process is perfect and therefore the product will be too. His plans are perfect... always. Perfection in giving expressed by the parable of the widow who had the least to give, but "gave" the most. Why? How can be giving less be giving more? Jesus tells us what He saw;
The Widow’s Offering
Luke 21:1 Jesus looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the offering box. 21:2 He also saw a poor widow put in two small copper coins. 21:3 He said, “I tell you the truth, this poor widow has put in more than all of them. 21:4 For they all offered their gifts out of their wealth. But she, out of her poverty, put in everything she had to live on.”
This story has very little to do with tithing or wealth. It has everything to do with priorities. The widow's priorities were in line with the heart of Jesus. She gave so much, and most importantly she gave first fruits. Sacrifice is the mark of the believer, executed by faith. Blessings are the rewards for the believer executed by God. This is the only place where God says "test me". and I'd bet he'd double dare ya!!
Jesus is God's first fruit. He was sacrificed for us. It is our good fortune to be able to faithfully tell God ... you are God, and money has no power over me, and sacrifice our first fruits. This is the heart of a cheerful giver. When we put our needs above what God expects us to do, we have choose a sacrifice of left overs, for God. He didn't, so how could we? Is this the "new" math?
Preparing Gifts for God
2Co 9:7 Each one of you should give just as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, because God loves a cheerful giver.
Tithing represents compulsion... or our duty under the law. We know this lesson and it was for our instruction born of God's love. Now... we have a chance to show God how glad we are He loves us, by gift wrapping our offerings, with our hearts. The reading of 2Corinthians tells us how to prepare our gifts for God. In addition the OT tells us about worthless offerings.
Job 15:31 Let him not trust in what is worthless, deceiving himself; for worthlessness will be his reward.
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If a preacher has to stand before the congregation and beg and make the congregation feel guilty over money there is something terribly wrong..
