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Tithing is emphasized a great deal in the church today. They cite the Old Testament's guidelines. The exact amount was two times a year of 10% for a total yearly percent of 20%. Every third year, a third 10% was added. This averaged to 23 1/3%.
However, under the new covenant Jesus said that our requirements were to be more than what the scribes and the Pharisees gave.
Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The way Jesus taught us to exceed the 23 1/3% tithe was for us to give our all to Him.
This is stewardship.
We are to present to Him the whole of our lives as a living sacrifice unto Him. That means everything that was ours is now His.
So how is it we are to give? Not out of our abundance. The Scriptures tell of a poor woman who gave but her last penny. Her donation of all that she had became an example for all of unselfish giving. We are told:
I John 3:17-18 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed and in truth.
If I give 20% and pass by a brother who is hungry and in need, then I haven't given enough.
We give according to the Spirit's direction. For many that isn't enough of an explanation. They want percentages or amounts. But, if you have a close relationship with the Lord, He will direct you when and how much to give, and you should seek His direction. Giving out of some dictate or mandate results in not so cheery of a giver. We feel we have given Him His fair share and the rest is ours. Not so. God is not the tax man and shouldn't be portrayed as such.
Many ministers and their families are nearly starved. Others are rich and getting richer by the day. Do the rich ever reach down to help the lowly brother struggling in their church?
The early church didn't preach tithing for over 600 years. They preached on stewardship and love as the basis for giving. I'll dare say that it was at this point that supporting the church became problematic.
Do you wonder what would be the result of such giving? I'll tell you. The churches with the most Spirit filled members would prosper. The ones with members who are not being fed would wither. No longer would the pews be filled with members trying to "pay their dues" for their entrance into heaven.
If you have been blessed and can give, then give all that you can. If you are poor and have little to give, give all that you can. But to shackle the saints with Old Testament law... that is simply wrong.
So, why should anyone spend hard earned money to build mega churches and defend pedophile priests?
How about you give 10% of your money to cancer research, or an animal shelter?
I agree satanoid, although I don't necessarily think that all priests are pedophiles. But, I, for the life of me, cannot understand why giving to a church is better than giving 10% to charitable organizations that have a documented cause. It seems that, by far, from what I gather on the teachings of Jesus, that by giving to organizations that research cancer, provide animal shelters, feeding the hungry, or any other noble cause would be more beneficial to give to something that is essentially, as many Christians acknowledge "man made". Most believers agree that religion has the propensity to do terrible things. So why give your hard earned money to something that has the propensity of doing these things? Is it not as effective in God's eyes to give 10% to an organization such as St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis? Not to troll or anything, but here is the link in case anyone's interested (I think it's a noble enough cause)
Regardless, it seems to me, that those who wish to follow the teachings of Jesus, especially in how we treat our fellow human beings are actually being quite selfish by donating to an organization that is level with their own cause. In other words, you donate to your church because it is on an even keel with you. But, why not donate to a place like St. Jude's? Why not donate to other charitable causes? Yes, I understand that churches also contribute to these causes but in every instance I see some sort of "advertisement" for the church as well. Is it not enough to donate to a noble cause and be anonymous about it? Is it not enough to be anonymous about donating to a cause such as this and know in your heart that regardless of religious beliefs, you did the right thing? Why do we have to give money to an organization that doles the money out in different respects, as IT sees fit?
I agree satanoid, although I don't necessarily think that all priests are pedophiles. But, I, for the life of me, cannot understand why giving to a church is better than giving 10% to charitable organizations that have a documented cause. It seems that, by far, from what I gather on the teachings of Jesus, that by giving to organizations that research cancer, provide animal shelters, feeding the hungry, or any other noble cause would be more beneficial to give to something that is essentially, as many Christians acknowledge "man made". Most believers agree that religion has the propensity to do terrible things. So why give your hard earned money to something that has the propensity of doing these things? Is it not as effective in God's eyes to give 10% to an organization such as St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis? Not to troll or anything, but here is the link in case anyone's interested (I think it's a noble enough cause)
Regardless, it seems to me, that those who wish to follow the teachings of Jesus, especially in how we treat our fellow human beings are actually being quite selfish by donating to an organization that is level with their own cause. In other words, you donate to your church because it is on an even keel with you. But, why not donate to a place like St. Jude's? Why not donate to other charitable causes? Yes, I understand that churches also contribute to these causes but in every instance I see some sort of "advertisement" for the church as well. Is it not enough to donate to a noble cause and be anonymous about it? Is it not enough to be anonymous about donating to a cause such as this and know in your heart that regardless of religious beliefs, you did the right thing? Why do we have to give money to an organization that doles the money out in different respects, as IT sees fit?
actually IMHO churches, and Christians are supposed to be anonymous givers..and St Judes is a great place to donate..I guess since Im so close to Memphis..the schools here do alot to raise money for St Judes. Our town has a community fund..where one can round up your electric bill and give there..also you can donate from your check..or just give outright..GCSTROOP..gr8 post! makes you have to think!
Last edited by arguy1973; 10-19-2007 at 07:37 AM..
I agree satanoid, although I don't necessarily think that all priests are pedophiles. But, I, for the life of me, cannot understand why giving to a church is better than giving 10% to charitable organizations that have a documented cause. It seems that, by far, from what I gather on the teachings of Jesus, that by giving to organizations that research cancer, provide animal shelters, feeding the hungry, or any other noble cause would be more beneficial to give to something that is essentially, as many Christians acknowledge "man made". Most believers agree that religion has the propensity to do terrible things. So why give your hard earned money to something that has the propensity of doing these things? Is it not as effective in God's eyes to give 10% to an organization such as St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis? Not to troll or anything, but here is the link in case anyone's interested (I think it's a noble enough cause)
Regardless, it seems to me, that those who wish to follow the teachings of Jesus, especially in how we treat our fellow human beings are actually being quite selfish by donating to an organization that is level with their own cause. In other words, you donate to your church because it is on an even keel with you. But, why not donate to a place like St. Jude's? Why not donate to other charitable causes? Yes, I understand that churches also contribute to these causes but in every instance I see some sort of "advertisement" for the church as well. Is it not enough to donate to a noble cause and be anonymous about it? Is it not enough to be anonymous about donating to a cause such as this and know in your heart that regardless of religious beliefs, you did the right thing? Why do we have to give money to an organization that doles the money out in different respects, as IT sees fit?
Well, I know you won't agree here, GCS, since you are an atheist, a cute atheist, but nevertheless an atheist...
These organizations and others may be worthy causes and probably should be supported but they are not saving souls! Certainly the Bible enjoins us to try to take care of our fellow man, but the most significant way we can help our fellow man is to get the gospel to him, thereby affecting him for eternity not just the here and now.
Well, I know you won't agree here, GCS, since you are an atheist, a cute atheist, but nevertheless an atheist...
These organizations and others may be worthy causes and probably should be supported but they are not saving souls! Certainly the Bible enjoins us to try to take care of our fellow man, but the most significant way we can help our fellow man is to get the gospel to him, thereby affecting him for eternity not just the here and now.
I don't mean to be rude but I find that a bit.... I'm at a loss of words. I don't think you meant it this way, but it gives the impression that the whole process of giving to the church so it can give to others has some underlying ulterior motive that seems somewhat self-centered and rather selfish. Why can't we just give to be good people? I suppose that this is the grey area in which we agree to disagree?
I don't mean to be rude but I find that a bit.... I'm at a loss of words. I don't think you meant it this way, but it gives the impression that the whole process of giving to the church so it can give to others has some underlying ulterior motive that seems somewhat self-centered and rather selfish. Why can't we just give to be good people? I suppose that this is the grey area in which we agree to disagree?
I'm not sure what you think I meant, troop, but just let me just try to be plainer about what I do mean. I think Christians should give to charitable causes outside the church (after and above giving to the church of course) And I think churches should give to benevolence too and my own does. My church gives cash to people who are in need. We have a food pantry and a clothes closet. We believe in giving. However, the most important thing the church does and what sets them apart from other worthy charities is that it is also in the business of saving souls. That is the most important activity of the church. That's why I think the church should be supported first. I know you don't agree since you don't believe there is a hell to "save" people from, but does that clarify more where I'm coming from?
What kaykay was saying to you GCS is that these organizations like St. Judes etc.,are good to give to from a worldly perspective,but will not give you eternal salvation in heaven.
What kaykay was saying to you GCS is that these organizations like St. Judes etc.,are good to give to from a worldly perspective,but will not give you eternal salvation in heaven.
Bingo. Thanks for the succinct clarification, noland123.
Is the lack of tithing or not giving at least 10% of our earnings robbing God. Aren't we taking from God,which is already His?
I like your question because the Bible has a straight forward answer and my personal oppinion does not matter. Malachi 3:8 "Can a person rob God? Yet you rob ME. But you ask 'How have we robbed YOU?' In tenths and voluntary contributions." (Complete Jewish Bible Translation) I have heard a lot of teaching on tithing and personal oppinions too. Some of it was sound teaching from the Bible and some of it was not. If any one has questions concerning tithing I suggest they commit the matter to prayer and study. I don't think think tithing is a hard fast rule Christians are compelled to follow. The Lord loves a cheerful giver...thithing is a private matter between God and the giver. (I guess I had to add my oppinion).
We had a quiz a while back...and I came out cheap (love you Alpha) because I only counted what I gave to church under tithing....most of my money goes to children's causes and animal rescue...I personally think God is fine with that. Giving of one's self for others irregardless of how you do it, cash or time, is pleasing to God. He just wants us to love and care for all of His creation. God doesn't add up all the money you've given to the church when He judges you, anyone who thinks that way and preaches that I would be very wary of.
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Thanks for the succinct clarification, noland123.
) because I only counted what I gave to church under tithing....most of my money goes to children's causes and animal rescue...I personally think God is fine with that. Giving of one's self for others irregardless of how you do it, cash or time, is pleasing to God. He just wants us to love and care for all of His creation. God doesn't add up all the money you've given to the church when He judges you, anyone who thinks that way and preaches that I would be very wary of.
