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Old 11-04-2012, 01:22 PM
 
428 posts, read 331,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
Where does that say it is referring to the end of the age when Christ returns? That is not even being discussed in the context from which this one verse was taken. Please explain how the topic at hand got changed during the course of this one paragraph?
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
1,341 posts, read 1,533,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob View Post
Where does that say it is referring to the end of the age when Christ returns?
"the Son of Man comes"

What part of those five words do you not understand? Jesus said He would be back before they died, I believe him, do you?
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Old 11-04-2012, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Texas and Arkansas
1,341 posts, read 1,533,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The church was never redeemed . . . WE were. Nonsense. Once Christ died and was reborn as Spirit His Holy Spirit became available to us ALL within our consciousness (Spirit). We listen to or ignore it using our own free will and human desires. But God has the truth "written in our hearts" and we can learn it without need for any men to teach us (or lay on hands . . . or any other ritual). We need only sincerely listen to the Holy Spirit's guidance. Any errors are entirely of our making based on our weaknesses and human desires. We ALL are redeemed now . . . but we need to be sanctified and justified under Christ's grace and love for us all by following His commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. Only the insincere and those whose human needs are so frustrated or distorted that they mask what is in our hearts. Be silent and know God to remove those distortions and the Holy Spirit will not lead you astray. Ask "What Would Jesus Think" (WWJT). Forget all the ignorant, superstitious, savage and barbaric notions about God in the OT. Christ is the exemplar . . . NOT the ignorant ancient descriptions of Jehovah or Yahweh.
There is no doubt whatsoever that you do not have any Holy Spirit at all. And yes, the bible plainly teaches that the Spirit was given through the laying on of hands from the apostles which you deny.

"ignorant ancient descriptions"??? Forget all the ignorant, superstitious, savage and barbaric notions about God in the OT? Really? And you think you have the Holy Spirit?

You better test that spirit! It's not from God for sure.
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Old 11-05-2012, 04:47 AM
 
428 posts, read 331,592 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
"the Son of Man comes"

What part of those five words do you not understand? Jesus said He would be back before they died, I believe him, do you?
I don't have any problem with those 5 words. It's the extra words you are trying to add that I take issue with.

Yes Jesus said he would "come" before they went "through the cities of Israel". Now can you show me the words "before you die" in that verse? I don't think you can. Let's look again for these words.

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Where is the reference to "coming back" or "before they die" in that verse? It's not there. It is not even included anywhere in the context of the passage. Jesus is sending the 12 to the Nation of Israel only and forbidding them to go to any Gentile or even the Samaritans. You are simply adding to the scripture what you wish it said to make it fit what you want it to say. That is no way to take God's word. If your theology is correct you do not need to twist the scripture trying to prove it. The scripture will do so on it's on without your help.
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:11 AM
 
63,944 posts, read 40,226,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
There is no doubt whatsoever that you do not have any Holy Spirit at all. And yes, the bible plainly teaches that the Spirit was given through the laying on of hands from the apostles which you deny.
"ignorant ancient descriptions"??? Forget all the ignorant, superstitious, savage and barbaric notions about God in the OT? Really? And you think you have the Holy Spirit?
You better test that spirit! It's not from God for sure.
Only God knows who does and does not follow the Holy Spirit, cowdog. It is always spiritually dangerous to assume the mantle of God in judging others. You clearly have a strong belief in the "precepts and doctrines of men" that emanate from your particular church or belief system. I have no argument with what you choose to believe. But there is NO DOUBT whatsoever that our ancient ancestors were ignorant, superstitious, savage and barbaric . . . NONE. They did NOT have the Holy Spirit within to guide them. That is why Christ came to correct their misunderstanding and lift the veil of ignorance over the OT.

After Christ's death and rebirth as Spirit we now ALL have His Holy Spirit available within our consciousness as the Comforter to guide us to what God has "written in our hearts." I follow that guidance and Christ's ONLY commands to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't. Everything else is human vanity and hubris serving the whims and desires of church leadership for membership.
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Old 11-05-2012, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 3,729,453 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy Joe Bob View Post
I don't have any problem with those 5 words. It's the extra words you are trying to add that I take issue with.

Yes Jesus said he would "come" before they went "through the cities of Israel". Now can you show me the words "before you die" in that verse? I don't think you can. Let's look again for these words.

Matthew 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Where is the reference to "coming back" or "before they die" in that verse? It's not there. It is not even included anywhere in the context of the passage. Jesus is sending the 12 to the Nation of Israel only and forbidding them to go to any Gentile or even the Samaritans. You are simply adding to the scripture what you wish it said to make it fit what you want it to say. That is no way to take God's word. If your theology is correct you do not need to twist the scripture trying to prove it. The scripture will do so on it's on without your help.
RESPONSE:

Tell us. How does one go through all the cities of Israel if one is dead? The Apostles were to still be alive when the Second Coming occurred. This matches about half a dozen pronouncements by Jesus:

MARK 9:1 And he said to them, ‘Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.’

Mark 13:24-27 ‘But in those days, after that suffering, the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven,
and the powers in the heavens will be shaken. Then they will see “the Son of Man coming in clouds” with great power and glory. Then he will send out the angels, and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Matthew 16:27-28 ‘For the Son of Man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay everyone for what has be en done. Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.’

Luke 9:27-29 ‘But truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.’

1 Thes 4:15-17 15For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died.* 16For the Lord himself, with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord for ever

Matt 10:23 And when they shall persecute you in this city, flee into another. Amen I say to you, you shall not finish all the cities of Israel, till the Son of man come.

Matt 26:64 “64Jesus said to him, ‘You have said so. But I tell you, From now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.’
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