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Please define the word "saved" or the word "salvation" in as much detail as you can. With so much discussion involving the use of these words, it seems to me that we might make a little more progress towards understanding one another if we were to at least start by defining the term we're so constantly using.
Are you asking what we are being "saved" from? The short answer, God's wrath.
Salvation is a gift. It can not be earned.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)
If you need to look up saved or salvation, dictionary.com will help you out
Grace, now that is something we could all use and share
Are you asking what we are being "saved" from? The short answer, God's wrath.
Salvation is a gift. It can not be earned.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. (NKJV)
If you need to look up saved or salvation, dictionary.com will help you out
Grace, now that is something we could all use and share
Are you asking what we are being "saved" from? The short answer, God's wrath.
Interesting you should ask that. No, that's actually not what I was asking, but most posters do seem to see it in that light. To me, salvation is so much more than being saved from something. For starters, I see salvation as God's promise to me that I can wake up each and every day with a clean slate, with a chance to repent of my past sins and be a better person than I was yesterday. It's the gift of a choice, given to me by a Father in Heaven who knows me personally and loves me despite my many, many flaws. It's knowing that through the Atonement of His beloved Son, Jesus Christ, that through faith, repentance and obedience, I can not only be forgiven of my sins, but continue to progress through eternity. God's wrath is the last thing I think of when I think of salvation. God's love is what comes to my mind.
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If you need to look up saved or salvation, dictionary.com will help you out
Actually, I don't think it would even scratch the surface when it comes to defining the word.
So some of you are saying that God sent Jesus to save mankind from God?
It does boggle the mind . . . doesn't it, sparrow? How could Christ's unambiguous example and teaching become so corrupted as to perpetuate such a hateful view of God for so long?
So some of you are saying that God sent Jesus to save mankind from God?
Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
That is why statements like\or similiar to this is all the more heretical:
Sad that you believe our loving Father is an angry, vengeful, jealous God who needs to be appeased by a murderous and torturous scourging blood sacrifice by crucifixion ... This egotistical nonsense about not being able to tolerate affronts to His "holiness or perfection" just is satanic thinking.
1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ]
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
Romans 5:9
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
There is no "theos" (God) in the verse, Twin . . . it is there by dogma and prejudice using the erroneous context of our ignorant ancient ancestors' beliefs about God. I just spent some time on a study for another poster on Romans 5. There are considerable misunderstandings about that chapter.
Here is the verse from KJV
Romans 5:9 King James Version
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
wrath orgē = anger, the natural disposition, temper
If we embrace the commands of Christ to "love God and each other" . . . we will not have need to get angry at anyone.
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That is why statements like\or similiar to this is all the more heretical:
Sad that you believe our loving Father is an angry, vengeful, jealous God who needs to be appeased by a murderous and torturous scourging blood sacrifice by crucifixion ... This egotistical nonsense about not being able to tolerate affronts to His "holiness or perfection" just is satanic thinking.
1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ]
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing,
but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
The message of the cross is Christ's message, Twin . . . and that is a message of Love for us all.
What's even more absurd and preposterous? Is that he punished his own Son as the "whipping boy." So, the few who believe it, would have life.
God did not "punish" His own Son as a wipping boy. God does not punish the just. He allowed His Son to be whipped by sinful men so as to have the last word. As savior now through mercy and Grace or as Judge on the last day.
The Atonement works like this. Christ was crucified by a world who rejected/now reject Him who represents all that is good. He now has the last word of mercy for those who repent or as Judge on the last day for those who will not repent and die in the sin that they would not allow Christ to bear through mercy. It is mercy that defines what Atonement means and what His substitutionary death means. If we reject His mercy, we bear our own sin and consequently forfeit His power to transform us into His image. Receiving of Him allows Him to transform us. It is written, HEB 2:3 "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him;"
IS 53:10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: when You shall make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."
God had the last word as to wither or not to allow His Son to be crucified. It pleased Him to allow it only and I repeat only because He knew what the outcome would be. He saw what others could not see.The outcome as you can see now is that He has caught the attention of the whole world and all of history so as to bring many to repentance and to the Glory of being transformed into the image of His dear Son. "He shall see His seed [the redeemed of the Lord]."
Last edited by garya123; 01-03-2013 at 04:36 AM..
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