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God did not punish His own Son as a wipping boy.
The Atonement works like this. Christ was crusified by a world who rejected/now reject Him who represents all that is good. He now has the last word now of mercy for those who repent or as judge on the last day for those who will not repent and die in the sin that they would not allow Christ to bear through mercy. It is mercy that defines what Atonement means and what His His substitutionary death means. If we reject His mercy, we bear our own sin and consequently forfeit His power to transform us into His image. It is written, HEB 2:3 "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard Him;"
IS 53:10 "Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: when You shall make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand."
God had the last word as to wither or not to allow His Son to be crusified. It pleased Him to allow it only and I repeat only because He knew what the outcome would be. He saw what others could not see.The outcome as you can see now is that He has caught the attention of the whole world and all of history so as to bring many to repentance and to the Glory of being transformed into the image of His dear Son. "He shall see His seed [the redeemed of the Lord]." Thus it it is written, JN 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave His only begotten Son [into the hands of sinners], that whosoever believes in Him [for mercy] should not perish, but have everlasting life."
...sorry, you can't stop there...
John 3:16For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.” (NKJV)
Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-03-2013 at 07:49 PM..
Reason: Red fonr is reserved for moderation. All other colors are good though :)
Sanctification is HOW we achieve justification in the righteousness of God. Our efforts to "love God and each other" daily and repent when we don't . . . are how we are sanctified and are received as righteous under the grace of Christ and His love for us all.
This is the old Gnostic heresy resurfaced. It was the underlining belief of Wescott and Hort - the Greek esoterics that lay the foundation for all "new" translations.
Their belief.... that we all need to become little "christs". That Jesus merely showed us the way. That we all need to find that divine christ within us to ascend to godhood.
It is anti Christ doctrine and Satanic. I do believe it is the doctrine of the Mark of the Beast... the point of no return..
Once one has turned to God through Jesus Christ they are "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God in which He imputes His perfect righteousness to their account. Through regeneration, the individual is a new creation with a new heart and now DESIRES to live the will of God and draw close to Him. In the natural we are in rebellion and have a desire to hide/run away from God as we are enemies.
Once one puts their Faith in Jesus Christ for their Salvation they NOW (not in eternity) can have fellowship with God through Jesus Christ. The Sin issue has been dealt with and GOD who desires to have fellowship with us NOW can do so.
Salvation is a free gift to the undeserving sinner. It is not a reward for good living. The only thing that separates an individual from Heaven and Hell is the PERSON Jesus Christ who currently resides at the right hand of God. Seek the Person who holds the keys of Hell and Death which no Man can open or shut.
No one can save themselves by their efforts to get to heaven.
This is the old Gnostic heresy resurfaced. It was the underlining belief of Wescott and Hort - the Greek esoterics that lay the foundation for all "new" translations.
Their belief.... that we all need to become little "christs". That Jesus merely showed us the way. That we all need to find that divine christ within us to ascend to godhood.
It is anti Christ doctrine and Satanic. I do believe it is the doctrine of the Mark of the Beast... the point of no return..
Once one has turned to God through Jesus Christ they are "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God in which He imputes His perfect righteousness to their account. Through regeneration, the individual is a new creation with a new heart and now DESIRES to live the will of God and draw close to Him. In the natural we are in rebellion and have a desire to hide/run away from God as we are enemies.
Once one puts their Faith in Jesus Christ for their Salvation they NOW (not in eternity) can have fellowship with God through Jesus Christ. The Sin issue has been dealt with and GOD who desires to have fellowship with us NOW can do so.
Salvation is a free gift to the undeserving sinner. It is not a reward for good living. The only thing that separates an individual from Heaven and Hell is the PERSON Jesus Christ who currently resides at the right hand of God. Seek the Person who holds the keys of Hell and Death which no Man can open or shut.
No one can save themselves by their efforts to get to heaven.
This is the old Gnostic heresy resurfaced. It was the underlining belief of Wescott and Hort - the Greek esoterics that lay the foundation for all "new" translations.
Their belief.... that we all need to become little "christs". That Jesus merely showed us the way. That we all need to find that divine christ within us to ascend to godhood.
It is anti Christ doctrine and Satanic. I do believe it is the doctrine of the Mark of the Beast... the point of no return..
Once one has turned to God through Jesus Christ they are "born again" by the Holy Spirit of God in which He imputes His perfect righteousness to their account. Through regeneration, the individual is a new creation with a new heart and now DESIRES to live the will of God and draw close to Him. In the natural we are in rebellion and have a desire to hide/run away from God as we are enemies.
Once one puts their Faith in Jesus Christ for their Salvation they NOW (not in eternity) can have fellowship with God through Jesus Christ. The Sin issue has been dealt with and GOD who desires to have fellowship with us NOW can do so.
Salvation is a free gift to the undeserving sinner. It is not a reward for good living. The only thing that separates an individual from Heaven and Hell is the PERSON Jesus Christ who currently resides at the right hand of God. Seek the Person who holds the keys of Hell and Death which no Man can open or shut.
No one can save themselves by their efforts to get to heaven.
There is no "theos" (God) in the verse, Twin . . . it is there by dogma and prejudice using the erroneous context of our ignorant ancient ancestors' beliefs about God. I just spent some time on a study for another poster on Romans 5. There are considerable misunderstandings about that chapter.
Here is the verse from KJV
Romans 5:9 King James Version
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
wrath orgē = anger, the natural disposition, temper
If we embrace the commands of Christ to "love God and each other" . . . we will not have need to get angry at anyone.
The message of the cross is Christ's message, Twin . . . and that is a message of Love for us all.
Wow, I didn't realize that verse is corrupted in many versions!
You are quite right.
Here is the concordant literal:
Romans 5:9 Much rather, then, being now justified in His blood, we shall be saved from indignation, through Him.
Wow, sparrow! Very insightful. That's exactly what it sounds like.
Yet Jesus is the very image of the Father, and came to do the Father's will...
So did Jesus come to save us from the Father? Or simply came to save us from sin, by showing us the answer: to believe on Him, to follow Him, to love God and each other.
The problem is understanding what "God's wrath" is. It is taught that God's wrath is eternal suffering in hell, yet that is an assumption that is not true.
Instead consider these verses (and others) in the light of what God commanded us:
Romans 12:19
Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord.
Col 3
5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.
Eph 5:6
Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.
God teaches us that we will reap what we sow. When we follow God's commands to love, we reap the result of that, which is relationship, peace, joy.
When we do not love (for example we lust, we are greedy, etc), we also reap the results of that: hate, war, destruction.
That is what God's wrath is. It is the simple result of disobeying God's commands to love each other. It is the natural repercussion of non-love. It leads to destruction and death. Therefore the wages of sin is death.
But that is why Jesus came, to show us the way, to be the way, to teach us to love, to be the example, to be the sacrifice, to give us life.
That is how Jesus saves us. It is through all of these things. It is how we are healed. To believe on Jesus means to follow Him. Why do you call Him Lord but not do what He asks? We must do His commands. That is how we are saved. It doesn't mean we save ourselves, but it means we love when we are saved.
Regardless, God is not always angry and His wrath does end.
Sit back and look at the partial minds when them try to explain how we are wrong and them right
everyone act like they know everything
each religion claim to have true faith, not one can know our destiny
we are all created equal no different from me to u
every man is born naked
fight to prove, living to fight.. proclaim superiority and waste our time
may fool the majority but can never fool the most high
jah love.. non partial, non politcal.
Jah is one Perfect love. this world was made for us to live in peace love and harmony.
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